Non-exotic pets and BM spec

[Ryna]

Are any other BM hunters feeling stuck with exotics only?
I'm less than eloquent, so I'm going to quote Ghaly's post from the official EU forums:

There seems to be a glaring problem with BM pets in wod. You removed all the CC and niche abilities like inturrupts from both exotic and non exotic pets in WOD which is understandable. However Now we are left with a two-tier system that comprises of:

Non exotic pets = 1 buff OR 1 ability.
Exotic pets = 1 buff, 1 ability (bloodlust, healing debuff etc)

It doesn't seem like something major to complain about and I understand its a proper first world problem. However what this does is limit beast mastery hunters to being stuck with exotic pets otherwise you are just gimping yourself by using a non exotic variant. This means that BM hunters will ironically only get to choose and use 22% of the families available to us (10/44) and have the least variety of pets of the three specs.

An example of this is wolves vs devilsaurs: Wolves bring a 5% crit buff. Devilsaurs bring a 5% crit buff and a -25% healing debuff on target.

Now while theres always 'just use what you want' the debuff in this example is really such a big deal (especially in pvp, but some pve soloing) that there really is no choice. The wolf gets stabled and we have to take the devilsaur.

Cast vs spirit beasts: Cats bering 3000 mastery, spirit beasts bring 3000 mastery and a significant sized heal on a 30 second cooldown.

Again, I love the cat models and this is one of the reasons I am making this post. Why on earth would I ever take the cat over the spirit beast? Being able to heal myself for about 20-25% of my hp every 30 seconds is way too good to ever pass up for a cat that does the same thing with no heal.

Spider vs silithid: Spider brings a slow, silithid brings a slow and a stamina buff.

And so on. We need some sort of system where BM hunters get a bonus ability from their spec for whatever family of pet they choose, rather than the pets themselves having the buffs. Or perhaps give all pets a second ability to remove the two-tier system and only allow the pets to use the second ability when the hunter is in BM spec. Something.

It used to be less of an issue because the niche abilities - like my gorillas inturrupt - actually gave alot of utility to choose from. Now that non-exotic pets no longer have any utility other than the buffs or singular ability they bring this means that non BM hunters basically get to use 78% of the pet families and looks, while the 'mastery over beasts' spec is limited to a mere 22%

[SpiritBinder]

Yeah, I tend to agree Ryna. I think there are certain pets that shine too much in certain categories, even within their own exotic/non-exoctic groups, which then tend to create a BIS pet for certain situations. The main thing for me is the discrepancies in the non stat buffing categories, like CC and defensives.

Many Defensive buffs are quite different, which is fine as long as they are balanced, but sadly they don't really tend to be. For example Shale Spiders are simply the most superior Tanking pet when you take into account Statistics and performance. I'll compare them to Quilen as they are the only other Exotic with damage reduction utility. We will exclude comparing their other buff/ability of the stat buff from The shale, and the Battle rez of the Quilen (Though the stat buff is more desirable for a tanking pet as it gives them more stamina).

Looking at their damage reduction utility, The Shale has Solid Shell, 1 min cooldown, reducing damage taken by 50% for 12 sec. The Quilen has Stone armor, 120 sec, When falling below 40% health (so you can't control or engage this earlier if you wanted too), the Quilen's skin will change to stone, causing it to take 30% less damage and regenerate 3% of its maximum health every 1 sec for 8 sec.

So 50% damage reduction for 12 seconds every minute... Or 30% damage reduction for 8 seconds, with a 24% heal every 2 minutes.
So every two minutes the shale spider ends up with 24 seconds of 50% reduced damage compare to only 30% for 8 seconds with a 24% heals.

Even if the Quilens ability was dropped to a 1 minute cooldown, it would still not be any better than the shale spiders. The length of 12 seconds at 50% is far better than 8 second and the 30%. The added 24% heal would only help balanced the extra 4 seconds of damage reduction and at an extra 20%.

For me it just goes to show that the shales spiders defensive ability is literally twice as good as the Quilens, and thats excluding the general preference of the stat buff over a battle rez (especially while soloing content).

I really LOVE the fact that the Quilens defensive is some thing interesting and cool, combining a little lesser defensive but adding in a heal, but the length on the cooldown timing is just so out of balance. Anyways, there is also many many of the abilities that seen, not so balanced and sub par compered to other of a different vein.

Xella has a great list of them too. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14609680877

[TygerDarkstorm]

The stat buff is actually Strength, Intellect, Agility, and Versatility now; Stamina is no longer attached to it. I double checked on it lately (since pallies, druids, and monks provide said buff as well) and it no longer lists the Stamina component it used to provide.

Edit: Shale Spider swaps Versatility for 5% crit; just logged on my hunter to check.

[SpiritBinder]

The stat buff is actually Strength, Intellect, Agility, and Versatility now; Stamina is no longer attached to it. I double checked on it lately (since pallies, druids, and monks provide said buff as well) and it no longer lists the Stamina component it used to provide.

Oh yeah, thats cool, I guess that does ease the discrepancy a lil, though in a solo capacity (and Probably in most group) Stat buff would definitely be more compared to a Brez. Though I'm fine those two differences as a whole, my main beef is the discrepancies in the defensive abilities that really, thats what stands out for me.

Edit: Shale Spider swaps Versatility for 5% crit; just logged on my hunter to check.

Oh cool, I never realized they ever gave Versatility, always thought it was just Crit.

[TygerDarkstorm]

Aye, shale spider's stat buff would still be better for soloing than quilen's brez. I know my shale spider has become my new favorite soloing pet.

Hehe, yeah, I logged onto my druid first to check her Mark buff and it provides Versatility. Then I logged on the hunter and she had her dog out--dog is just straight stats buff, no added bonus. Pulled out shale spider and that one read stats + crit. Not sure if the paladin and monk ones read any different; or if the gorilla one is different from the dog one (ie an added component like crit).

[Shinryu Masaki]

Many Defensive buffs are quite different, which is fine as long as they are balanced, but sadly they don't really tend to be. For example Shale Spiders are simply the most superior Tanking pet when you take into account Statistics and performance. I'll compare them to Quilen as they are the only other Exotic with damage reduction utility. We will exclude comparing their other buff/ability of the stat buff from The shale, and the Battle rez of the Quilen (Though the stat buff is more desirable for a tanking pet as it gives them more stamina).

Clefthooves have a defensive skill too, it's Thick Hide, which is passif unfortunately, and has a 2 minutes cooldown, but it is still 50% reduced damage for 12 seconds. And their other skill is Wild Strength which gives 3% Versatility and 5% Multistrike.

I know it's not as good as a Shale Spider's skills combo, but both Clefthooves and Quilens have nice combos too that shines better than the non-exotic pets.

[Ryna]

...have nice combos too that shines better than the non-exotic pets

This is my complaint, actually. There's no real choice for BM hunters, because we'd have to give up something much better for a different look. I love exotics, but I don't want *just* exotics. I'd rather the extra buffs be attached Lone Wolf style, or pets have an ability talent tree where you could pick what your pet could do.

[Shinryu Masaki]

One of the points of being a BM hunter is to tame pets that the other two specs can't have, so why would you NOT want to use them? Then again, in a 25 person raid, there's a very good chance that all buffs are covered, so if you really want to bring something you like just for the looks, you can. Also note that since the pre WoD patch came out, exotics usually have 3 skills now compared to the previous 2, if you only see 2 skills then most likely one is a buff that's a combination of 2 buffs, though they also did that too with player buffs for some classes.

[Lisaara]

It's funny cause I feel the exact OPPOSITE. Why? My raid is often asking for a certain buff, like attack speed, which exotics don't have far as I know. I wish we had more exotics. The exotic pets are so limited in choices, imho, when the other two specs have a ton to pick from.

[Shinryu Masaki]

That got me curious, so I went and checked out which pets give the 5% Haste buff, and not counting the ones that have Heroism/Bloodlust.

Hyena - Cackling Howl
Sporebat - Energizing Spores
Wasp - Speed of the Swarm
Rylak - Savage Vigor

So yeah, for another week we won't have an exotic that has the Haste buff. Oh and if some people aren't aware of it yet, there is no more Attack Speed, Ranged Attack Speed, and Spell Haste, all 3 are just Haste now.

[Lisaara]

That got me curious, so I went and checked out which pets give the 5% Haste buff, and not counting the ones that have Heroism/Bloodlust.

Hyena - Cackling Howl
Sporebat - Energizing Spores
Wasp - Speed of the Swarm
Rylak - Savage Vigor

So yeah, for another week we won't have an exotic that has the Haste buff. Oh and if some people aren't aware of it yet, there is no more Attack Speed, Ranged Attack Speed, and Spell Haste, all 3 are just Haste now.

I'm usually told to bring out my Serpent since Serpents give a speed thing too.

[Shinryu Masaki]

They used to give Attack Speed, now they give Spell Power.

[Lisaara]

Ah. Gotcha. Still, I'm often made to use him. I rarely get to bring my exotics.

[Shinryu Masaki]

Ah that does kinda sucks. I went and checked again, and to my surprise only two classes brings the spell power buff, mage and warlock, so if there's none in your raid I can see why they want you to bring your Serpent, though if you want there's always the Water Strider and the Silithid that brings Spell Power too.

[Lisaara]

I thought the silithid brought stam?

[Shinryu Masaki]

It does too. Since the patch 6 out of 11 exotic pets have buffs that are two buffs combined into one. If not then they have three skills instead of two. I made a list of them so that people can more clearly see what exotic pets can bring. I think that right now the entire buff system is a mess, not because it's bad, but because Blizzard changed a LOT of buffs for all classes, not just Hunter's pets, so it's quite normal that people are still confused by it.

I'm normally the type of person that reads on stuff like that a bit too much, but the WoD buff revamp is still confusing me. I still have a lot of reading up to do on that, but I did see that they made some class buffs give out Versatility and Multistrike, while at one point in time only Hunter pets could give out those buffs, and people rightfully complained about it.

Anyway, here's the list of exotic pet skills I made.

Chimaera
1- Duality -> 5% Multistrike
2- Frost Breath -> 50% slow movement speed debuff
3- Froststorm Breath -> Area of Effect Froststorm damage

Clefthoof
1- Thick Hide -> Passif temporary 50% damage reduction
2- Wild Strength -> 3% Versatility + 5% Multistrike

Core Hound
1- Ancient Hysteria -> 30% Haste cooldown
2- Double Bite -> 5% Multistrike
3- Molten Hide -> Passif temporary "thorn"-like fire damage

Devilsaur
1- Feast -> Health + Focus regen cooldown (similar to Forsaken's Cannibalize racial)
2- Monstrous Bite -> 25% Healing reduction debuff
3- Terrifying Roar -> 5% Crit

Quilen
1- Eternal Guardian -> Battle Resurection
2- Fearless Roar -> 5% Crit
3- Stone Armor -> Passif temporary 30% damage reduction + 3% health Healing over Time

Rylak
1- Savage Vigor -> 5% Haste + 10% Stamina
2- Updraft -> Hunter + Pet Slow Fall buff

Shale Spider
1- Embrace of the Shale Spider -> 5% Strength/Agility/Intellect + 5% Crit
2- Solid Shell -> Actif 50% damage reduction

Silithid
1- Qiraji Fortitude -> 10% Stamina + 10% Spell Power
2- Tendon Rip -> 50% slow movement speed debuff

Spirit Beast
1- Spirit Beast Blessing -> Mastery (scale with level)
2- Spirit Mend -> Heal over Time
3- Spirit Walk -> Stealth with 20% bonus damage on first hit

Water Strider
1- Still Water -> 10% Spell Power + 5% Crit
2- Surface Trot -> Hunter + Pet Water Walking buff

Worm
1- Burrow Attack -> Area of Effect Nature damage
2- Strength of the Earth -> 5% Strength/Agility/Intellect + 3% Versatility

As you can see, right now it is more useful to use an exotic pet as BM instead of a normal pet, but only if your raid group does require a specific buff. If they don't, you can bring the pet you want, exotic or not. I can't say if Spirit Mend is more useful now compared to what it was in MoP, which wasn't too bad, but with all the insane boss burst damage, it wasn't really worth it to use as it made next to zero difference in someone living or not.

[TygerDarkstorm]

Thanks for that list! That's going to come in handy.

[Danielfboone]

Spirit Mend has saved my bacon on many occasions since my reaction times are frequently not the best. I almost always use my Loque in raids for just that reason. I have the mend macroed to heal me.
When soloing, I rarely use a tenacity pet but on those rare occasions when I'm having problems, I'll use either my Direhorn or a turtle. My Quilen is specced Ferocity. In the beta, I used a Riverbeast for tanking.

[Lisaara]

Oooh thanks for the list! Seems I need to rememorize the buff list.