Why should SV / MM hunters get Exotic Beast families?

[FuzzyDolly]

Ahh FuzzyDolly, kinda like intimidation, or what its called? You do that trough the pet etc :p

Yep, same idea. Don't give us more shots... give us more unique pet attacks. Simple, easy, fair...

[Ryai]

Ahh FuzzyDolly, kinda like intimidation, or what its called? You do that trough the pet etc :p

Yep, same idea. Don't give us more shots... give us more unique pet attacks. Simple, easy, fair...

No. Pets are still to fragile. Had a crappy tank for UP and Gundrak, and my newly tamed second Skoll died 5 times PER run. Every time I noticed it, it was to late even for mendpet+cower or calling the pet back.

Giving more damage abilities to glass cannons does not make a glass cannon a more viable item for battles.

[Saturo]

But BM is about looking after your pet... Besides, buff Mend Pet, and we would'nt have that problem. Plox do now, Blizzie!

[Shandorei]

Ahh FuzzyDolly, kinda like intimidation, or what its called? You do that trough the pet etc :p

Yep, same idea. Don't give us more shots... give us more unique pet attacks. Simple, easy, fair...

No. Pets are still to fragile. Had a crappy tank for UP and Gundrak, and my newly tamed second Skoll died 5 times PER run. Every time I noticed it, it was to late even for mendpet+cower or calling the pet back.

Giving more damage abilities to glass cannons does not make a glass cannon a more viable item for battles.

Spec it for pvp stm You are BM afterall, dmg wont be on top anyway

[Shandorei]

Ahh FuzzyDolly, kinda like intimidation, or what its called? You do that trough the pet etc :p

Yep, same idea. Don't give us more shots... give us more unique pet attacks. Simple, easy, fair...

No. Pets are still to fragile. Had a crappy tank for UP and Gundrak, and my newly tamed second Skoll died 5 times PER run. Every time I noticed it, it was to late even for mendpet+cower or calling the pet back.

Giving more damage abilities to glass cannons does not make a glass cannon a more viable item for battles.

Spec it for pvp stm You are BM afterall, dmg wont be on top anyway

[Acherontia]

I don't have trouble with pet dying in dungeons, heroics or raids; it rarely happens. I just watch it closely. If you're noticing it too late, it's not the pet's fault

That said, I look at a BM hunter standing around with a spirit beast and I think the same thing as a previous poster: weak. You have the pet out because you like the appearance, not because it is strong, and thus I say again, I agree that pets with special appearances should not be BM's 'signature.'

Maybe if they were actually stronger than non-exotics, but they're not.

[Shandorei]

I don't have trouble with pet dying in dungeons, heroics or raids; it rarely happens. I just watch it closely. If you're noticing it too late, it's not the pet's fault

That said, I look at a BM hunter standing around with a spirit beast and I think the same thing as a previous poster: weak. You have the pet out because you like the appearance, not because it is strong, and thus I say again, I agree that pets with special appearances should not be BM's 'signature.'

Maybe if they were actually stronger than non-exotics, but they're not.

Bring a partly PvE specced Devilsaur (/w the health increases+wild hunt) and go find a lower / mid geared mage, priest ,lock.. Use some CDs, sometimes only bestial wrath.. Now you can send the pet in and watch it destroy the player, they aren't THAT weak ><

EDIT: Got off a 4k wolverine bite with my ravager on a mage, yeah

edit to edit: Crit of course

[Ryai]

I don't have trouble with pet dying in dungeons, heroics or raids; it rarely happens. I just watch it closely. If you're noticing it too late, it's not the pet's fault

That said, I look at a BM hunter standing around with a spirit beast and I think the same thing as a previous poster: weak. You have the pet out because you like the appearance, not because it is strong, and thus I say again, I agree that pets with special appearances should not be BM's 'signature.'

Maybe if they were actually stronger than non-exotics, but they're not.

They were supposed to be, but hunters QQ'd over feeling forced to just use exotics if they were BM.

And sadly, while I do have BM hunters, I didn't go BM just to have shiny pets, 4 of my hunters are BM because I like it, or I like how for the most part I have survivability half the time. The other point is I have some MM hunters leveling up and I am QUITE HAPPY on them WITHOUT exotics. Oh sure I'd like a worm for my lv 30 MM hunter, but am I going to throw a fit over it? No, because I have shots and I am happy enough with my shots.

And wtf, I don't get what you're saying about spirit beasts, or in turn any exotic. I mena going by that, any hunter not having a wolf is a hunter who doesn't care about dps and just wants to have a shiny pet, Exotic or not. That's messed up logic, I'm sorry, but it is.

And btw I said crappy tanks, as in, so crappy my pets were getting aggro and in 3 seconds were dead. Twice it was 5 seconds so I popped Cower+mend pet, nbut again, 2 seconds later, pets were dead, so no it wasn't because I wasn't watching enough. My pets shouldn't be pulling aggro and dying so quickly. But this example still stands as a point. If crap hits the fan and your pet dies and your BM and there's even more talents for your pets to throw off even more DPS as sometimes my pets do 45/50% of my dps, so don't give me none of this 'well you're not gonna be top DPS anyways' BS Quelthasa, then your dps is going to suffer even more than it already has.

So again.

If MM and SV get EXOTICS then BM would officially be dead, no one would specc BM as why would we outside of Lol Pet Tanking. Oh wait, Misdirect is being possibly nerfed for this possibility, meaning Pet Tanking might become something of the past. So once again, why would anyone be BM outside of hard core players? What point would their be in being BM? It wouldn't be for 4 extra talent points, MM and SV show they can soar higher than BM usually without the 4 extra pet points BM offers.

So again.

If you take away Exotics, BM would DIE because if I had the chance to be MM or Surv and keep my exotics? Like hell I'd be BM. I'd be off it faster than a rat off a sinking ship on fire in a hailstorm of ****. Why would I stay there? For +4 points and cobra shot? Haha. Yeah right.

How about this, why don't we just remove Beast Mastery entirely, make Hunters only SV and MM?

Cause that's what'll happen.

[Ryai]

I AM ALSO DOUBLE POSTING. CAUSE I CAN. And cause I am just that fed up and annoyed with the QQ for SV and MM to get their hands on 'shiny' pets.

Demonology for Warlocks has a DEMO. EXCLUSIVE. DEMON.

Is it available at all for Affliction OR Destruction? NO.

So I am going to say this again.

SV has their shots.

MM has their shots.

BM has their pets.

If you want to have it all, go roll a private server and get 51/51/51 talents.

[Shandorei]

Hmm can't recall me saying you "weren't watching enough" but okay, else than that I agree^^ still BM isn't completly weak, it still compete.

Oh and...

Awesome finish

If you want to have it all, go roll a private server and get 51/51/51 talents.

Everything seem to be correct

[Acherontia]

Ryai, I think we're actually more on the same page than you realize. I'm BM because I enjoy it--and I raid with it, and top dps charts more often than not.

I don't have a real opinion on the whole "to whom spirit beasts should belong" issue. I just don't care if MM/Surv gets them.

MY issue is fear that the public opinion of BM is leaning far too much toward "BM is the spec for pretty kitties" rather than any real use. If people really start to see it this way, the "if you want pretty pets, spec BM, if you want dps, spec MM," well, that means the end of BM as an actual spec, and the viewing of it as a laughingstock by more serious players. Not that I care what other people think, as such, but if public opinion goes that way, then BM hunters may well not be improved upon in the future.

lower / mid geared mage, priest ,lock

--I do, and have posted about it before--I enjoy watching the devilsaur rip lower-geared clothies apart. I'm more pointing toward "spirit beasts" when I say exotics--the people standing around Orgrimmar with Loque'Nahak, because while it IS beautiful, it's sadly weaker than many other pets. My point is, they shouldn't be weaker.

But buffing just Exotics means BM would be stuck using ONLY exotics. And so, my point here is:

* BM shouldn't be about pretty pets, or we will be weak.
* BM shouldn't be about Exotic pets, or we will be pigeonholed into ONLY using certain pets.

I apologize if I haven't made this clearer before. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who loves raiding as BM and hates seeing it viewed as a joke spec for those who just want sparkly kitties.

Edit: What I think BM -should- be about, I've specified earlier in the thread: Powerful pets, pet-hunter synergy, and beastlike abilities for the hunter. We aren't really that far behind in the DPS race atm, and I'm sure it'll get fixed, but the people who seem to think the spec should be about standing in cities with spirit beasts, I disagree.

[Nevar]

I personally still find people getting way too worked up about this than they should. Blizzard is going to do what they feel is best - to be honest in cataclysm it seems they are evening out many of the classes to make them on par with each other so nothing will be the best. It shouldnt matter if I as a MM hunter want to have my Loque with me - he still isnt better than a wolf but I like him more. I played as BM when I enjoyed it and I dont now it just isnt the same - I spec into it as offspec to have my favorite pet out with me but Acherontia is right as it stands Bm is pretty much just a spec for pretty pets or at least thats why most people spec it. We all have our opinions and as you say you shouldnt have them well I think I as a I hunter should be able to have my favorite pet out in the playstyle of my choosing. Nobody knows for sure what Blizzard is going to do - its best to just sit back and wait..

[Ryai]

No we really aren't on the same page. Cause honestly? This is like Affliction locks crying out for a Felguard because they want a shiny demon even tho they can use Felpup and Imp, or even Succubus and VW. Or summon for a short time, an infernal or Doomguard.

Everyone trying to justify Exotics for SV and MM seem to forget that exotics while not as powerful as they were supposed to be, ARE OUR DPS INCREASE PERSE. Because several are upgraded versions of their non exotic counterparts. IE Devilsaurs to Raptors, and it should be Spirit Beasts to Cats, and etc etc.

That's the point. Beast. Master. Marksman are more focused on their shots, their rotations. They don't have time to spend and form deep, deep bonds with the more exotic pets like Spirit Beasts and Devilsaurs or even Corehounds, who are all wild and vicious. Hell even Rhinos are as vicious as a Corehound or Devilsaur. And maybe while dumber than dirt, they're still hard to get thru to.

Survival? They're more focused on tricks and traps, keeping out of range while shooting you down faster than dirt with their explosive shots. Do you really think hunters who are like that would really be focused on taming exotics?

Think about it 'rationally'.

Because this would also be like Deathknights; all deathknights can use/summon a ghoul. Only Unholy can KEEP the ghoul. Why? Because Unholy focus on UNHOLY over BLOOD and FROST, so it'd be like a Blood or Frost DK all a sudden going around with a permanent pet ghoul.

So I'm just sorry that no one seems to get the point of being a Beast Master, is the shiny pets, because honestly all pets I tame are shiny.

Exotics and non exotics included, and if you take exotics away from Beast Masters, well what are we then? There'd be nothing special about us. Mean frigging hell there's differences between Warlocks and Deathknights and I don't see such arguments cropping up about demons or ghouls, but instead of trying to get help for BM, people want to strip Beast Masters of their signature and allow SV and MM to tame them.

Then again I ask you, what would the point in being BM be, if you weren't rewarded for your hard effort? Because seriously, if MM and SV got access to spirit beasts and Devilsaurs and all other exotics, that I work my ass off to use and DPS in heroics and raids with on Yasindra, I would either quit the game or roll SV or MM because why should I bother to try and be BM anymore? When all the QQ over sparkly pets, got any incentive for me to work for my rewards, taken away?

Because honestly. This is all a stupid argument, and I'm just disgusted by it. I don't see myself whining and crying for Black Arrow and Explosive shot. I don't sit around QQing for Chimera shot or all the other shot goodies MM has. I focus on myself and I do what I can.

So no Acherontia we aren't on the same page as you really just aren't seeing that BM would basically become an even more extinct specc for main specc when we could proffit from MM and SV. Shots and shiny pets? WHOO BOY.

[Acherontia]

You clearly didn't read my post at -all.- If that's going to be your attitude then I don't see a point continuing the conversation, but I stand by what I said.

[Shandorei]

Hey don't fight

* BM shouldn't be about Exotic pets, or we will be pigeonholed into ONLY using certain pets.


Well, I have a thing for exotics Devilsaurs, core hounds, thats why I wouldn't let them go Just as what Ryai said, that a affli lock would want a felguard etc. Its in each others nature to have special beasts because they are specialized in it!

Setup like this would be the correct way (imo)

Marksmanship: Specializing in shots.

Survival: Specializing in Trap mastery, DoTs (B. Arrow) and shots.


Beast Mastery: Masters of beasts, taming strong and fierce beasts who fights on their side ripping enemies apart. + Passive buffs etc.

[cowmuflage]

to be fair Quelthasa did you really think no one would fight in a thread like this? on a site like this? comeon man its just asking for it!

[Shandorei]

Hehe nope, sh*t happens they both made good arguments, I'm happy

[Rhyela]

Edit: What I think BM -should- be about, I've specified earlier in the thread: Powerful pets, pet-hunter synergy, and beastlike abilities for the hunter. We aren't really that far behind in the DPS race atm, and I'm sure it'll get fixed, but the people who seem to think the spec should be about standing in cities with spirit beasts, I disagree.

Yep, a hundred times this. I want to point out that I've been BM for five years and even I think that exotic pets shouldn't be what sets them apart from the other specs. I used to think so, to be honest. I was just as upset about the idea of SV and MM getting exotic pets. But when I thought about the changes coming in Cataclysm, and the rumors and whisperings that pets are going to be normalized, then what's the point of having the "exotic" category? If the pets' special abilities are changed to where they're buffs/debuffs, then I doubt that having an exotic will make much of a difference. If they take away the damage aspect from pet special abilities, then I see no reason to not allow the other specs to tame the "exotic" pets (or take "exotic" out of the equation entirely). If exotics cease to become stronger (and really, the only one that seems stronger is the devilsaur), then I don't see any reason for other specs to not have them.

Again, I'm speaking in Cataclysm. In WotLK, no, the other specs should not get exotic pets. In Cataclysm, maybe, if they improve BM in other ways. Because one thing that jumped out to me in a previous post was the mention that if you take away exotics from BM, then they don't have anything left. To me, that seems to be the problem. Exotic pets really aren't any stronger, except for the devilsaur (but even then many BM still have better DPS with wolves), so what's the point? And remember, I've always been a die-hard BM, so it's not like I'm a long-time SV or MM crying about it. I'm a BM at heart that thinks that the BM tree needs to improve in other ways. Making exotics more powerful is too restricting, because then BM is forced to use them. But improving the tree in other ways as highlighted by Acherontia above sounds good to me. Improve the hunter-pet bond by giving them some sort of shot that when you use the shot, it increases the pet's damage, or sends them into a rage, or something. There's so much they can do along those lines. I think that's where we need to see the improvement. The skills, not the skins.

[Slickrock]

BM shouldn't be about Exotic pets, or we will be pigeonholed into ONLY using certain pets./quote]

Edit: What I think BM -should- be about, I've specified earlier in the thread: Powerful pets, pet-hunter synergy, and beastlike abilities for the hunter. We aren't really that far behind in the DPS race atm, and I'm sure it'll get fixed, but the people who seem to think the spec should be about standing in cities with spirit beasts, I disagree.

Yep, a hundred times this. I want to point out that I've been BM for five years and even I think that exotic pets shouldn't be what sets them apart from the other specs.

Again, I'm speaking in Cataclysm. In WotLK, no, the other specs should not get exotic pets. In Cataclysm, maybe, if they improve BM in other ways. Because one thing that jumped out to me in a previous post was the mention that if you take away exotics from BM, then they don't have anything left.....

I have to agree, BM should not be about exotics. Especially since GC considers the spirit beasts trophy pets.

The problem is that Blizz also has CLEARLY said that they don't want pets any stronger. They don't want pets to be an unguided rocket we set loose. Until they find a way to have us control them more, pets dps will not be increased.

So if you can't make BM pets stronger, but everyone wants pretty pets, what do you do?

If you just add another shot, then you've created MM 1.5.

If you buff BW, then you create something that will be nerfed for PVP again.

Blizz might be started on the right track to making BM unique in a different way in Cata with us doing nature damage with our core shot. But that isn't enough, they need to follow through with that (and like with SV doing elemental damage).

I do think pets should be normalized, with two attacks and 1 special for each, and the talents modifying that more for BM. Normalizing would allow for a range of pets that no one ever uses now. Howl needs to be nerfed, or other pets need to be brought up to match. It isn't fair that a MM pet with 16 points can surpass a BM exotic pet most of the time.

[Otterpops]

I really liked this comment. I was mm/bm on my last hunter and yes it was JUST to have a chance to try the exotics. There was no other reason to use a spec that was considerably that much weaker even in basic PVE it would take 3 times longer to hunt and skin than when I was in MM. I know it's stupid but eventually I became very embarrassed walking around with an exotic in public, like I was a spectacle of weakness. I gave up BM.

Just my opinion but they need to make exotics tamable by all and make BM a strong solid spec.

For BM abilities? They should have their own shots in the same way mm & sv. Maybe allow them to have pets that are swarms like a colony of rats, pack of wolves, swarm of meerkats.

I've seen hunters that do run around and do dungeons without pets. I think it's just a little creepy, not sure why...

Mate I'm sorry, but I would bet I could take you down fairly easy anyday in a duel against you in your MM spec as BM.. You surely don't know the power a BM hunter wields with the correct use of spells and timing. Let me tell you this: I beat nearly every single class one on one, healers aswell. SV / MM Hunters hit hard, but only for those 2 secs, then they got to wait for CDs.. If I pop my CDs, and use my combination of Arcane and aimed shot you would be nuked down pretty fast. I'm sorry, but stating you feel weak in the spec just makes me sad and honestly you must be bad then. Just had to say it, DO NOT feel weak in this spec. I feel like a boss in it, I can beat almost everyone with an exception of Spriests and locks.


Edit; Speaking on behalf of my main, not the 37 hunter in the signature.

Quelthasa - Magtheridon

Not here for a epeen size off but good for you! lol It's good to like yourself.

BMs are looked at as the push-button-and-win spec. It's not me thinking this. Please next duel you have vs a SV/MM hunter both of you put your pets away then see what happens. I think alot of people are saying it shouldn't be this way, BMs should be able to have more to stand strong on their own. You know on BGs that pet is going to die, that's a big chunk of BM attack power gone just like that - and that just sucks don't you think?

People are welcome to choose whatever spec they enjoy. By my logs when I play BM my pet does about 64% of my damage and it's slow, as MM the pet does 8% and I burn through everything. I love my pet but I want to feel like I'm the one playing. BM was a great spec to level with and very fun, but now unless blizz fixes it, it's just not for me. It kills me too because I miss my devilsaur