Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

[Quiv]

I would also keep in mind that Icy Veins is a guide, not a set of regulations you must follow. While it may be the closest thing to min-max'ing, if you find there is a talent choice whose synergy works better for you and keeps you going through your rotation better, then you should use that talent. Especially if its a crowd-control or movement talent.

And in regards to IV guides, I know that the same author works on both the BM and SV guides - Azortharion. They have their own twitter and number-crunching information on their own sites and google documents as opposed to putting it all on IV. So if you really wanted to see or ask what made him choose those particular talents, you could always try contacting the author.

This is how I use them. I am no min-maxxer by any means, so I use them to get an idea of the priorities and talent powers. Ultimately though, I may choose a talent with a lower theoretical dps simply because I want a simpler rotation or it fits my playstyle better. Mok'Nahal talent is a good example of this.

[Valnaaros]

Indeed, which is why I didn't mention the third or fifth row. Those rows do not affect dps, typically. In most cases, IV will say that it comes down to personal preference or to go by encounter. There may be talents in a couple of specs (not just Hunters) in the CC or mobility rows where they'll recommend them over the other options, but usually the reason is obvious.

And yes, IV is not a set of regulations that one must follow. But as you said, Rikaku, it is probably the closest thing anyone can get to min-maxing - to truly understanding and mastering your spec.

[sasrei7]

BM seems to be the master of the constant cds.. im so used to always spamming cobra shot but now I find myself just sitting around watching cds and not fully paying attention to the boss.. kinda annoying and boring..

im not used to just sitting around doing nothing all the time lol.

[Sukurachi]

BM seems to be the master of the constant cds.. im so used to always spamming cobra shot but now I find myself just sitting around watching cds and not fully paying attention to the boss.. kinda annoying and boring..

im not used to just sitting around doing nothing all the time lol.

If anything, this expansion has made BM hunters far less an "active" class than at any time in the game's history.
It is a serious design flaw to regress and make a class rely on sitting there waiting on cooldowns.

Now, if the reason we're waiting all the time is because of some "missing element" that is brought into game by our relic weapons, I consider THIS to also be a design flaw. It means that with the next expansion Blizzard will be forced to redesign our class yet once more.

[Quiv]

Now, if the reason we're waiting all the time is because of some "missing element" that is brought into game by our relic weapons, I consider THIS to also be a design flaw. It means that with the next expansion Blizzard will be forced to redesign our class yet once more.

Artifacts are going to require design changes for all specs likely after Legion, but thats not entirely uncommon for expansions (revamps like Survival and Combat being the exception). Lets hope the next one is nicer to us.

[Sukurachi]

the only way I can see Blizzard getting by the next expansion wold be to continue with the concept of a relic weapon into the next expack. You start the new quest lines and earn a new relic weapon specific to that expack.

[Nachtwulf]

I don't know... I feel like they're going to revert it once the expac's over, I mean... how do you top Ashbringer or Doomhammer? If it were just the others that don't really have any ongoing story (lulz titanstrike) then I could see casually replacing them but lorewise one just doesn't stick Ashbringer over the fireplace and wander off to the new hotness.

Also, and this may just be me, but who else feels like the artifact mechanism feels a lot like the spheres in Final Fantasy X/X2?

[SetsunaChan]

Also, and this may just be me, but who else feels like the artifact mechanism feels a lot like the spheres in Final Fantasy X/X2?

Nope it's not just you! I was thinking the same thing. The artifact system is just like the sphere system in FFX.

But I do agree the CD on AotC is bit too long. It's not making running Gnomer for the sword needed to tame the Sentient Mechano-Strider any easier.

[Rhyela]

I...kinda don't care as much as I thought I would. It's annoying having something changed so drastically from what we've known for so long. But, at the same time, classes like warriors have to slowly plod along everywhere, unless they have something I'm unaware of. Obviously, the change is nevertheless most unwelcome and I'm not trying to trivialize it, it's just that I'm not as steamed as I thought I'd be.

[Quiv]

I...kinda don't care as much as I thought I would. It's annoying having something changed so drastically from what we've known for so long. But, at the same time, classes like warriors have to slowly plod along everywhere, unless they have something I'm unaware of. Obviously, the change is nevertheless most unwelcome and I'm not trying to trivialize it, it's just that I'm not as steamed as I thought I'd be.

Well they have charge and then theres the coolest* mobility in the game with Heroic Leap (and a talent that gives them a small speed boost afterward), but your point still stands cuz they still plod along.

*At least its the coolest mobility in theory. No one can use it because NO PATH AVAILABLE >:|

[Sukurachi]

I care because it's something that Hunters have had since the game started.
When I play my warrior, I don't worry about it because other than "Charge" they've never had an out-of-combat speed boost.
Druids have had an O-o-C speed boost since the beginning, Rogues had one with a talent (though I'm relatively new to Rogue so no idea how far back that went), Priests had for a short while a glyph or talent related to Levitate (so not had it long enough to really complain about it now missing).

But Hunters have been able to give a speed boost to their party, or to themselves, since the beginning. It feels really crappy to suddenly have them remove this after 12 years, for no real reason.

[Rhyela]

I absolutely agree, Sukurachi! I just meant that I'm not as angry about it as I thought I'd be. It's still stupid, though.

[Valnaaros]

the only way I can see Blizzard getting by the next expansion wold be to continue with the concept of a relic weapon into the next expack. You start the new quest lines and earn a new relic weapon specific to that expack.

As Nacht said, you can't really top most of the Artifacts. Plus, what would the reason be that we aren't using the old ones? At best, we continue to use the same Artifacts into the next xpac. At worst, they revert the changes that the Artifacts brought.

[Xota]

I...kinda don't care as much as I thought I would. It's annoying having something changed so drastically from what we've known for so long. But, at the same time, classes like warriors have to slowly plod along everywhere, unless they have something I'm unaware of. Obviously, the change is nevertheless most unwelcome and I'm not trying to trivialize it, it's just that I'm not as steamed as I thought I'd be.

Well they have charge and then theres the coolest* mobility in the game with Heroic Leap (and a talent that gives them a small speed boost afterward), but your point still stands cuz they still plod along.

*At least its the coolest mobility in theory. No one can use it because NO PATH AVAILABLE >:|

Ya, heroic leap takes a lot less aiming skill than disengage+post haste, but "you can't use that here" gets frustrating on a warrior. I've been practicing my disengage+posthaste spin, getting it to go off at exactly 180 is tricky. I have gotten across the Shrine balcony gap, but only from a standing start. I hope there's a legion version of "mark of supreme doom". It made doing old raids and dungeons doable for many more classes/specs (with the leech) and less tedious (with the speed).

[Rhyela]

I personally really like Disengage+Posthaste, so I think I'm actually more sad about losing that as SV than Cheetah. I'm odd, I know. The harpoon version (forget the name) hardly feels useful since you have to have a hostile target to harpoon to. That feels like it completely defeats the purpose of an escape mechanism. From the pot to the frying pan!

[Nachtwulf]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20747637351#1
I made a forum post. Post on it so the devs see it and I'm not tootling my horn alone in the dark.

[Xota]

Disengage used to require combat, so perhaps harpoon could at least be tweaked to not require combat. Like if cast on yourself, you pull yourself forward the same distance as disengage jumps you, or at least triggering posthaste.

But remember, blizzard balances abilities/talents around combat, not around running through a cleared part of a dungeon/instance. Paladins have to close distances in combat that mm/bm don't have to as frequently.

[Shinryu Masaki]

so perhaps harpoon could at least be tweaked to not require combat.

Harpoon doesn't require combat, but it does require a target at least 5 yards away from you.

[Valnaaros]

Not only combat, but also in around other classes. In the latest hotfix Blizz removed Death's Advance from all DK specs, and erote a blue post about how they're not supposed to have the speed that some other classes have.

[Kayb]

I just don't aspects at all anymore *shrug* They feel irrelevent to me now and with the high cooldown, I tend to forget about them anyway. I've adapted to live without them