So with legion being all about demons....

[Sukurachi]

must... tame... one.. of... these.... <argh>

Flameworgs can be skinned (they drop leather and intestines). They should be beasts (they originally were, just never tamable).

[Valnaaros]

Felstalkers weren't something else originally. They were created by the Legion, not changed. The fel wolf was a normal beast corrupted by Fel.

[Rikaku]

i just thought it would be cool :/.....................mmmmmmmmm oh! maybe we could cleanse a felstalker? and change it back to a beast more akin to what they were originally every demon race has a non-fel corrupted form right? we did it for that fel wolf in tanaan so why not a felstalker

Oh I don't doubt it would be cool, lol XD I mean if I had the option/ability to tame a demon (without rolling a warlock), I so would. My only commentary was just I don't think it'd happen for just the simple fact that they're one of the most iconic things of Warlocks.

But... I mean... I used to say that about Wolf Mounts and the Horde, and here we are years later with wolf mounts everywhere lol

[Zulmalakhan]

As both a warlock and a hunter main I can honestly say at this point they could really allow hunters to have a fel stalker pet quest a la our green fire one, because let us face it:

-verdant spheres stolen and given to mages

-metamorphosis stolen and given to demon hunters

-green fire shared with demon hunters and now even mages have fel fire around their orbs as an artifact tint

-demonology can't even have 2 demons up at the same time, hunters and unholy DK can

-fel fire is only actually visible on 1 spec

-the flaming effect of burning embers stolend and given to mages in the form of combustion

at this point I can honestly say that the topic of "this belongs to warlocks" is a joke comment, blizzard fucked up warlocks soooooooo bad for this expack.......... in all honesty the warlock went over the course of 2 expansions from being the most versatile and visually stunning class to well.. the most visually outdated and boring class...

So as a warlock and hunter main I think it would be okay if hunters get a really hard quest to be able to tame a fel hunter, not the ugly new dreadstalkers , but the classic fel hunter with tentacles on his back

P.S.
also a major request to Blizzard, gives us warlocks back verdant spheres using the new spinning orbs, let us have wings on our backs, let us have 2 demons out and please for fucks sake let the green fire be usable on other specs too and on demonbolt, also having the ability to swap demon specs ( like hunters swap pet talents ) would be nice, having a succubus with the role the felguard has would actually be very nice indeed, especially given the new models, also let us subdue demons as warlocks just like hunters do with beasts pls , you can let unholy dk tame undead as well, would be awesome

[Valnaaros]

Verdant spheres actually was a Mage thing, since they originated from Kael'thas when he was a Mage. Felo'melorn was his weapon, so it makes perfect sense that Fire Mages would have them.

Metamorphosis was a DH ability originally.

Both Locks and DHs use Fel Fire, so it makes perfect sense. The fire mage tint isn't said to be fel fire (doubt it is)

That is a design choice.

It should be visible on all of them. Hopefully, someday it will be.

Fire Mages already had Combustion, I believe. They didn't steal it.

None of these are reasons why Hunters should be able to tame Felstalkers. Sounds more like your personal complaints against Blizz's decisions for Locks this xpac. If anything, they don't help your case. You are saying that Locks have had a lot taken from them (stuff that, for the most part, belonged to other classes). So, the best thing is to have Hunters take even more away from them?

Some of those requests I'm onboard with, but some, like allowing different demons to perform the roles set by others, I'm not.

[PrimalTazza]

I think it'd be hard to "cleanse" a fel hound at this point. It'd either just not work, or kill the poor thing. Something like the wolves in Tanaan, they're fairly recently afflicted/corrupted, not centuries or millenia like fel hounds. It's so ingrained in them that you'd have to find an original, untainted member of the species or go through a ton of effort (more than anyone would probably be willing to go through for what would appear to most to just be a demonic animal) to purify a single one. If you just said screw it and attempted to tame one, I predict a few outcomes: one, it just doesn't work. You'd probably have to be demonic yourself to do this and the fel hound would be unruly and unwilling to obey at all. Two, if you attempt the sort of taming that we seem to use in-game, which bonds both your souls together... who the hell knows what that corrupt thing would do to you. For all we know it could end up "taming" YOU, the hunter.

Also, they're demons. They crave chaos and destruction and have a taste for magic. The only reason fel hounds belonging to your warlocks aren't gobbling up your mages is because the warlocks have total control over the creatures. Corrupted creatures are just violent and with a little luck and an attempt at purging the fel, they can be made docile enough to train and manage like most other beasts, though probably still a little more violent/savage than usual.

Just how I see it.

[Valnaaros]

Felhounds don't have an original, uncorrupted member of their family. They were created by the Legion. Pure evil and Fel.

But yes, Warlocks are really the only ones capable of controlling them. How Hunter taming/bonding works, and the nature of Felhounds, it just wouldn't be possible.

[Wain]

I didn't realize fel hounds were artificial. I'd always just assumed they were fel-corrupted life forms from some planet or other. Interesting!

[bufferunderrun]

what is more disturbing is the lack of fel corrupted skin available, like the old tanaan wolf etc. I'd expected a bunch of new "fel" beasts ready to be tamable yet the only one is the basilisk.

[Zulmalakhan]

Verdant spheres actually was a Mage thing, since they originated from Kael'thas when he was a Mage. Felo'melorn was his weapon, so it makes perfect sense that Fire Mages would have them.

Metamorphosis was a DH ability originally.

Both Locks and DHs use Fel Fire, so it makes perfect sense. The fire mage tint isn't said to be fel fire (doubt it is)

That is a design choice.

It should be visible on all of them. Hopefully, someday it will be.

Fire Mages already had Combustion, I believe. They didn't steal it.

None of these are reasons why Hunters should be able to tame Felstalkers. Sounds more like your personal complaints against Blizz's decisions for Locks this xpac. If anything, they don't help your case. You are saying that Locks have had a lot taken from them (stuff that, for the most part, belonged to other classes). So, the best thing is to have Hunters take even more away from them?

Some of those requests I'm onboard with, but some, like allowing different demons to perform the roles set by others, I'm not.

Kael'thas was never a mage, he was a blood mage using both warlock and mage skills, in fact his only spell that mages had was flamestrike, drain mana and banish are warlock spells, although drain mana was removed long ago. His verdant spheres were not related to Felomelorn, they were the desecrated mooncrystals of Quel'thalas and they were used to absorb demonic magic and energy and amplify his own spells with it, just like how warlocks use the energy from the souls of their enemies and turn them into sould shards to empower their own spells.


DH only had metamorphosis AFTER Illidan absorbed the knowledge of the skull of Gul'dan, it was the warlock's knowledge that gave him the technique and since all demon hunters follow illidan he trains them to use it as well, moreover in the DH starting area you only learn metamorphosis after gaining demonic knowledge from a tome of fel secrets.

The green tint is green fire that looks like felfire so it is felfire, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is a duck not a raging pitbull or a squirrel


Firemages had combustion, very true, they stole the flaming effect from burning embers visual in legion though


My complaints are to point out that the only reason blizzard said they would not let hunters tame demons is not a valid reason at all anymore, as it has been conveniently tossed aside when it suited them

I honestly can't say that at this point letting hunters tame felhunters would ruin us warlocks more than it has already, and they can't really make us special and unique fel snowflakes without upsetting the classes that got our abilities in the first place so this is why I am saying they should let warlocks have more versatility with their own pets and have some new visual flare to make up for other classes sharing their once iconic and unique spells.



And for those saying a hunter cannot tame a felhunter because of the spirit bond, you could use a fetish or a charm to force a taming and bonding like the Zandalari did on the isle of thunder in the beast pens. where they forced a connection with the beasts because they didn't have time to make one based on trust and respect as they would do naturally

[Valnaaros]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Kael%27thas_Sunstrider
Was a Mage, eventually became a Blood Mage, but was a Mage first. Couldn't get into the Council of Six if he was using Fel.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Metamorphosis_ ... k_ability)
Read the Trivia. DH ability.

Yes, and DHs use Fel. Doesn't change anything. Fel Fire comes from Fel.

I don't see why it isn't valid. Not to you, maybe, but that doesn't mean that it isn't still valid.

As I said, just sounds like you're upset about what Blizz did to Locks, and believe that Blizz can't do anymore harm than, in your opnion, they haven't already done.

You're comparing a Dinosaur to an artificial demon. Felhunters aren't beasts, nor are they something that was created naturally. You assume that such a fetish would work, when, in reality, it probably wouldn't.

[Zulmalakhan]

Kalethas got the verdant sphere AFTER Arthas destroyed Quel'thalas and he turned to more darker magic and became a blood mage by the logic that he was a mage before then by all means metamorphosis would be a mage skill because Illidan was a mage before he was a demon hunter and most warlocks are former mages or shamans


the ) at the end isn't in blue so the link leads to a broken page but on the good page it says it was taken from the iconic demon hunter spell from warcraft 3, demon hunter in lore got it from Illidan who got it from the skull of Gul'dan http://wow.gamepedia.com/Illidan_Stormr ... rom_prison


Also, artificial being you say, not created naturally... hmmmm looks at Chimaeron... looks at mechanical pets... looks at shale spiders, mana wyrms are also heavily implied to be artificial magical cratures http://wow.gamepedia.com/Mana_wyrm

[Valnaaros]

No.... because Illidan didn't create metamorphosis until after he was a DH, not prior. Even still Verdant Spheres isn't a Warlock ability, since Blood Mages aren't Warlocks. Similar in some ways, but they are more like Mages than they are Warlocks. But yes, most Warlocks were once Mages and Shamans.

Yes, but it never says it came from Gul'dan's knowledge, just the power from it. http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Skull_of_Gul%27dan. Its power came from the Legion, which Illidan absorbed.

Shale Spiders aren't artificial, just as Core Hounds and Gyroworms aren't.
Chimaeron was a creature created from other creatures (mostly dragons), then animated in some way we do not know. Not a good example.
Mechanical pets are created, generally, to follow the commands of their creator. Programmed to do so.

For Mana Wyrms, you left out the part where it just talks about those on Sunstrider Isle, not every Mana Wyrm.

[PrimalTazza]

I think Chimaeron was just thrown in for the hell of it, mechanical pets are weird and use some sort of "mecha-bond imprint" whatever thing, shale spiders are like bestial elementals so they're perfectly natural beings, and calling mana wyrms a "creation" does not imply they are created in the sense of being built from the ground up. You could apply a lot of that quest text to the devilsaur from Siege of Orgrimmar and it'd still make sense; girding the thing in armor and pissing it off by caging it, shocking it, etc. in essence "created" a monster. With mana wyrms being spread across Azeroth in areas where high elves were very unlikely to be and the fact that they're even in Outland would, to me, suggest that they're actually just like magical leeches and were perhaps drawn to all the magic in Quel'thalas.

It implies the elves in fact just bound the creatures with magic and used them as guardians, tenders, drudges, whatever.

I don't think hunters should get hold of fel hounds. Just doesn't feel right to me. Artificially or naturally demonic beings that have just always been this way (I think nathrezim are implied to have always been demonic from the get-go), they're unfeeling, unruly and monstrous. Mechanical pets could also be said to be unfeeling, but as machines, they can also at least be made to follow commands with little thought of their own, and then there's a handful of them which seem to have some sort of simulated emotion.

[Zulmalakhan]

I just said before that 2 spells from blood mages are from a warlock ( drain mana and banish ) and just flamestrike is from a mage so 2 on 1 the blood mage is more of a warlock, his verdant spheres function as warlock soul shards ( essence of the enemy used to empower your spells )

Actually when it says created it means literally created from scratch, and by scratch I mean arcane energy as they are placed in the same boat as arcane wraiths

PrimalTazza, you do make a good point with chimaeron honestly, and with the machines being programmable, but the shale spiders are, as you say, elementals, elementals are not natural beasts as in you can't imprint your soul with it, elementals that are not sentient ( meaning not elemental lords or higher elementals ) are ravenous and often destructive manifestations of nature ( remember the quest where Thrall was seperated and thrown into the elemental plane, each element coresponded to an emotion ) much in the same way a felhunter is a representation of fel magic ( the draining and deconstruction of life
energy ).

Also, felhunters are in fact tamed by demons so they pretty much are trainable and can be taught to follow commands, we see them accompany many demons who aren't capable of higher spellcasting and mental domination like warlocks are ( felguards are a good example of demons who have felhunters and don't have that much magical capacity )

[Valnaaros]

Yes, and they also can use Fireball, Pyroblast, summon Phoenixes, etc. (Thus, more Mage-like) The Verdant Spheres were, originally, Mooncrystals from Quel'thalas that were corrupted by the Scourge. The bit about them being the essence of demons is old lore, non-canon lore.

Yes, just on Sunstrider Isle. It specifically mentions the Arcane Wraiths and Mana Wyrms, *on Sunstrider Isle*, were created by the Blood Elves. There are Mana Wyrms found elsewhere. I think PrimalTazza is spot on.

Who is to say you can't bond with them? You can bond with a normal Elemental - even imbue yourself with the essence of one. So, who is to say that the same isn't for beast-like Elementals?

Because the Legion is chaotic. Felhunters are chaotic. The Legion wants to kill everything. Felhunters want to kill everything. Plus, the Legion created the Felhunters, so they are just serving their creator. The only times we ever see them working with something else is if they're enslaved/bound into servitude.

[Zulmalakhan]

Pardon? I have never seen blood mages use pyroblast and fireball in WC 3 and since when is summon phoenix an iconic mage spec ? summon water elemental has been the go-to for mage summons summon phoenix is blood elven specific.

True on mana wyrms that they can be found elsewhere, but if they can be created that means that artificial creatures can be tamed.

fel hunters are chaotic, they want to kill everything but they still serve their creators, that means that they can be taught to obey someone who tells them to kill, not like you use your hunter pets to do interpretive dance you know.....

[Sukurachi]

...not like you use your hunter pets to do interpretive dance you know.....

now this is an ability I must have missed... which pet family has this one?
it must work as a sort of "stun" effect, as in:

pet: *launches into interpretive dance number on a song by Pink*
mob: "WTF? huh? wuh??" /stands frozen in place dazed and confused as hunter wails on it.

[Valnaaros]

Blood Mages aren't just in Warcraft 3. They are also in WoW, as seen in the Blasted Lands, Isle of Thunder, Quel'danas, etc. At those locations, and more, they are seen using Fireball and Pyroblast. Yes, and Blood Mages are, typically, a Blood Elven thing. But Fire Mages can use Phoenix-inspired abilities with Felo'melorn.

That means that just those on Sunstrider Isle are artificial, not Mana Tomb, Winterspring, Azsuna, Suramar, Netherstorm, Karazhan, etc. Shoot, in Netherstorm, we seem them emerging from rifts in the Twisting Nether, which suggests that those particular Mana Wyrms originate from there.

Yes, but not willingly. They are a Demon, and thus have to get a source of Fel and/or Arcane (both, for Felhunters) in order to survive and prevent withdrawal. The Legion can obviously provide both. A Warlock can obviously provide Fel, and I'm sure they can manage the other. Hunters cannot, since they have no great control or skill over Fel and Arcane, and it comes as a risk to them to go and get those magics for them (seeing as they cannot protect themselves from Fel and Arcane easily like Warlocks and the Legion can).

[Zulmalakhan]

by your logic, then metamorphosis belongs to warlocks because there are warlock mobs who still use it, warlocks should use portals and not mages because their artifact can open portals to other dimensions, hunters should use lightning because titanstrike uses lightning, artifact weapons aren't supposed to be considered class spells, they are a once in an expansion thing that is meant to boost your powers over what you could normally do.


you're missing the point on mana wyrms, if they can be created artificially, then some of them are artificial, if an artificial creature can be tamed then so can another artificial creature.


Demons do not need a source of fel, they prefer a source of fel, remember the demons in the black temple who had blue energy instead of fel magic, also felhunters feed on magical energy as a whole , fel arcane or nature or elemental, they are mage hunters/eaters so to speak, they can also eat meat as well http://wow.gamepedia.com/Felhound once more, guess what the mount for the legion collector edition is.... and if you bind it to your will using some elder demon trinket or even some kind or vrykul rune ( Odyn has been present in the hunter lore for this expack quite a bit ) or maybe just use a mind control device on it, you won't have any problem finding energy, especially fel energy for it to feed on, you are fighting all the demons in the universe, so from a source of nourishment point of view, the felhunter is better off with you as you can give it more food and prey that it's current masters , who ironically will become its food )


P.S. we all know the moment felhounds become tameable we will see orcs with guns running around with felhunters named "devouring one"