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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:42 pm 
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Who says Calia can do anything to fix it. I mean she was raised by the Light and I don't see the Light as being a good thing. From what I've seen in game it's not.


I still think "light undead" is a really dumb thing.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:05 pm 
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It's not a question of "what I don't like" not being canon. It's a question of bad fan fiction not being canon. I honestly don't care what anyone says. It's BS.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:21 pm 
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Stands to reason that if the Light can reanimate Calia and cleanse her body of the dark magic from Sylvanas’ arrow, then it could help heal Derek’s mind (which the Light has been shown to do).

Light undead as a concept were introduced in Legion. Odyn’s Val’kyr are undead but were reanimated by the Light instead of by Necromancy.

Thus far we haven’t seen the Light being a bad thing. We’ve just seen certain people with bad/misguided intentions using it in a bad way.

@Sukurachi. It is still canon. A lot of people didn’t like the midichlorians being the explanation on how someone uses the Force in Star Wars, but it is still canon. Besides that, what someone may call bad fan fix another may call great writing, and vice versa. One’s opinions on the quality of the writing do not determine what is and is not canon.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:36 pm 
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Except BTS was written by a woman who said Anduin Wrynn was "too soft" to be gay. So quite frankly, I don't take anything she says or writes as canon because well, I don't like her. *shrugs*

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Valnaaros wrote:
Thus far we haven’t seen the Light being a bad thing. We’ve just seen certain people with bad/misguided intentions using it in a bad way.



You could say the exact same thing for the people who use it for good. That does not mean the Light itself is a good thing. I would not trust a Naaru for example.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:01 pm 
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Which are misguided intentions/execution.There are good people that want to do the right thing and end up going about it the wrong way. The Light, according to newer lore, isn’t typically sentient. It is like the Arcane. It cannot pick and choose what cause it serves.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:17 pm 
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cowmuflage wrote:
That does not mean the Light itself is a good thing. I would not trust a Naaru for example.

I personally feel that the light/shadow dichotomy is more order/chaos than good/evil. Light-forged Draenei are very scary to me.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:27 pm 
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Valnaaros wrote:
Besides that, what someone may call bad fan fix another may call great writing, and vice versa. One’s opinions on the quality of the writing do not determine what is and is not canon.


No, you're quite wrong on this,
When the writing quality is crap, no matter how much YOU may like it, it does not make it "Great writing". Garbage writing is garbage writing, regardless of its popularity. Twilight was popular. It's still shi**y writing, and the same goes for 50 Shades of Grey. Crap like that get published, and it sells. It's still crap.
The same goes with any artform.
You can like it all you will. It doesn't make it great.

And my opinion is, and never will change on this point: if it is NOT in the game, it did not happen.
This. Is. An. RPG. For. F***'s. Sake.
There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever for there to be "required" novels to get the whole story. The entire POINT of an RPG is that it tells a story within its own framework.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:08 pm 
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Wain wrote:
As far as I’m concerned the Forsaken have always been villains, and the other Horde races have performed morally repugnant quests for them as part of their levelling, often in conflict with both the theme of their race and the concept that their character is a hero. I don’t really see much is different other than they’re now in charge and it’s no longer so easy to ignore it.


100% this. I tried to level a forsaken once and no shit one quest was literally "Go kill this random farmer who did nothings dog because...reasons". Nope.

Sukurachi wrote:
And my opinion is, and never will change on this point: if it is NOT in the game, it did not happen.This. Is. An. RPG. For. F***'s. Sake.There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever for there to be "required" novels to get the whole story. The entire POINT of an RPG is that it tells a story within its own framework.


While I agree in principal - that isn't the case clearly with wow. Especially the last few expansions from the cataclysm onwards. Reading the books and the game expansions have gone hand in hand. And you know what? If it gets a bunch of ppl who wouldn't normally read to - I'm 100% for it. Wether its shit or not it's still enjoyable. And the writer of BtS (not sure about others) was employed by Blizzard to write the book so this is 100% a canon story. Maybe they are just too lazy to put the whole thing in game as quests who knows (we know they are cutting corners like mad with this expansion).

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:09 pm 
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I never said that I like BtS. I like parts but not the novel as a whole. I also don't like a lot of Golden's novels, particularly War Crimes. I think a lot of them are rather poor writing. I was merely stating that some people will like her writing (and there are people that say as much), and there are people that don't.

Agreed, there shouldn't be as many novels as there are (that being said, there are many great RPGs with great stories that have novels), but without the novels then our current story isn't even canon. Without the events of BtS, the events of BfA make no sense and couldn't have happened. Without War Crimes, WoD would've never happened, and thus Legion would've never happened.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:18 pm 
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Silivren wrote:
Except BTS was written by a woman who said Anduin Wrynn was "too soft" to be gay. So quite frankly, I don't take anything she says or writes as canon because well, I don't like her. *shrugs*

This is new to me, and concerning. Do you happen to remember the reference for this?

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:25 pm 
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Wain wrote:
Silivren wrote:
Except BTS was written by a woman who said Anduin Wrynn was "too soft" to be gay. So quite frankly, I don't take anything she says or writes as canon because well, I don't like her. *shrugs*

This is new to me, and concerning. Do you happen to remember the reference for this?


I don't think that is what Golden was saying. I believe this is the referenced statement: "This is why characters like Peeta, Newt Scamander, and Anduin Wrynn are so important." "Too often men and boys who gravitate to the gentler side are automatically perceived as being gay, whether they are or not. ALL men/boys should be able to display these qualities, just like all girls/women can be tough and fearless and athletic if that's who they are."

Basically, she is saying that a man being gentle =/= being gay. Anduin is a gentler man, but that doesn't make him gay.


Can find the Twitter post here


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:32 pm 
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Valnaaros wrote:
I never said that I like BtS. I like parts but not the novel as a whole. I also don't like a lot of Golden's novels, particularly War Crimes. I think a lot of them are rather poor writing. I was merely stating that some people will like her writing (and there are people that say as much), and there are people that don't.

Agreed, there shouldn't be as many novels as there are (that being said, there are many great RPGs with great stories that have novels), but without the novels then our current story isn't even canon. Without the events of BtS, the events of BfA make no sense and couldn't have happened. Without War Crimes, WoD would've never happened, and thus Legion would've never happened.


I don't think that would be a bad thing, I find time travel (unless it's a main theme like in Doctor Who) is a BAD story telling mechanic, who cares what happened earlier when we can go back in time and make it never happen. Or worse make another time line so that you don't have to deal with your story's gaping cannon plot holes and other issues. :| It would be nice if the time travel BS never happened. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:37 pm 
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Agreed, it is almost always a mess since, usually, they don't think it out entirely and it causes a bunch of holes in the story and whatnot. Would've been nice to have gained all of that Draenic architecture and culture. :/


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:30 am 
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Valnaaros wrote:
Wain wrote:
Silivren wrote:
Except BTS was written by a woman who said Anduin Wrynn was "too soft" to be gay. So quite frankly, I don't take anything she says or writes as canon because well, I don't like her. *shrugs*

This is new to me, and concerning. Do you happen to remember the reference for this?


I don't think that is what Golden was saying. I believe this is the referenced statement: "This is why characters like Peeta, Newt Scamander, and Anduin Wrynn are so important." "Too often men and boys who gravitate to the gentler side are automatically perceived as being gay, whether they are or not. ALL men/boys should be able to display these qualities, just like all girls/women can be tough and fearless and athletic if that's who they are."

Basically, she is saying that a man being gentle =/= being gay. Anduin is a gentler man, but that doesn't make him gay.


Can find the Twitter post here


Thanks. I was hoping it was something like that. And I agree, though I feel the argument is somewhat weaker in the light of no representation at all. Besides that, I still don’t mind shipping him and Wrathion. Especially since Wrynn men clearly have a thing for black dragons that are bad for them :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:39 am 
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haha true. Anduin did have two :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:25 pm 
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GormanGhaste wrote:
cowmuflage wrote:
That does not mean the Light itself is a good thing. I would not trust a Naaru for example.

I personally feel that the light/shadow dichotomy is more order/chaos than good/evil. Light-forged Draenei are very scary to me.


One could say that with the Mag'har recruitment scenario, that the Light-sworn Draenai are even scarier than the Light-forged ones.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:11 pm 
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Yes, although I think draenei on Draenor that you're talking about are called Lightbound?

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:27 pm 
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GormanGhaste wrote:
Yes, although I think draenei on Draenor that you're talking about are called Lightbound?


Lightsworn, they're not just Draenai though, the AU version of Garrosh joined them as well.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 pm 
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No, it isn't Lightbound. :)


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