BIG pet changes...

[Vephriel]

Hehe, I know. I never raided in BC though. I levelled very slowly so I had only just been 70 for a time and then WotLK was announced. I'm accustomed to to the 'BM sux' mentality so I won't lie and say that it didn't amuse me to think about them being back at the top again. Not saying I want people to go through that, just....irony made me laugh.

[Saturo]

I definately hope that, even if MM isn't the top spec, it's close enough to let me play as it. I can't stand SV or BM in a raid environment.

[cowmuflage]

I just can't stand the play style of BM and i'd liek to raid in cata

[Saturo]

I just can't stand the play style of BM and i'd liek to raid in cata

Exactly my feelings. It's boring, and even with the changes, I doubt I'll like it.

[Kalliope]

I definately hope that, even if MM isn't the top spec, it's close enough to let me play as it. I can't stand SV or BM in a raid environment.

The biggest problem with marks was that it was a mana hog. That should never be an issue again, I hope! (Well, with focus instead, I mean. x_x)

[Rhyela]

So...it sounds like BM players will still be forced to use exotics? X_x I mean, that's what most BM players probably want, anyway, but when I ran as BM I loved pulling out my tallstrider every once in a while. But if they get less skills just because they're not exotic, that kinda sucks. Give the PLAYER another skill, not the pet! You're still forcing hunters into a corner when you make one family or one pool so much better than another! v.v

[Makoes]

Had my hyena since before pet trees, when we actually had to hunt out pets and learn abilities (I really miss that aspect of the game), brought Nanaki with me for solo/dungeons/raids and no-one's ever given me heck (though i assume many non-hunters thought he was a wolf). I guess I am lucky that my guild lets me raid in whichever spec and with whatever pet I want. My guilds been great in helping me improve WHAT I am reather then what I (max dps wise) "SHOULD" be.

So although these changes they are making are nice, they dont really affect my play-style, I have and always will, play the way thats fun for me, and I am glad my guild understands "fun".

[Slickrock]

Ok.. first off, let me rant.

/rant

What is it with the BM hate? If this is the lol-BM-Steady-shot-mash hate, wake up and smell the burning Barrens... If you look at the full blue posts on MMO-Champ, hunters, and BM in particular, are going to be having the biggest playstyle changes in the expansion, so let's just get over it, ok?...

/endrant

Now with that over, I must say a few things...

First, don't freak about exotics being required yet. We don't know what the exotic specials are. They might be utility, they might be dps, we don't know yet. Even if they are utility, it's likely that they will be balanced so that they are what brings BM up to match MM. I would not expect BM to be king again. In fact, based on the descriptions, I'd say BM is going to be the most challenging hunter spec to play, and we can praise/hate BRK himself in part for that.

Second, I realized that is is almost exactly what I proposed a while back, in 1) normalize focus-dump dps, 2) make the family 'attack' a utility, and 3) then give exotics on other thing.

So, for non-exotics, my guess is we'll have 2 or 3 pets with the same debuff/raid-buff, another 2 or 3 with have the next, and so on. So we'll likely have a choice of pets to provide each buff/debuff. There will still be choices. On the flip side, given the 20 slots, most raid leaders would likely require you to have a pet that offers each possibility. But that's a good thing, gives us a spot in raid, especially in 10-man raiding. It's likely one of the reasons they gave us 20 slots.

So then for exotics, the big question is.. are the exotic-specials dps dealing?.. if so, then yeah, for BM, you might be required to bring an exotic, but you'll have more choices, as the exotics should be the same dps across the exotic line. So you can bring that spirit beast instead of a trex if you want.

So, we need a lot more info before we all freak out.

[cowmuflage]

no Slickrock i'm allowed to not like the play style of Bm its every thing about BM i don't like and its not a reason to rant about it im allowed to state my opinion about a spec i wasnt dissing it was just saying how i feel about it.

[Saturo]

My dislike for BM stems from the spells in the rotation, along with the fact that the pet deals such a large amount of damage. I just find myself feeling lazy when I play BM, because, guess what? I can play BM and eat, or watch TV or something at the same time, and output the same amount of DPS as when I focus. Then again, I suck at BM, my pet invariably does a minute into the boss, and even if it stays alive, I'm bored overall with the spec. I prefer SV over BM. Yes. It's that bad.

I only have it because of Lapress, really.

[Sarayana]

If your pet dies that fast while you're feeling bored, Saturo, it's probably 'cause you're slacking a tad on the pet-control aspect of BM. Because of the dependence on your pet as BM, you've gotta be much more aware of your pet's situation. It's definitely micromanagement, but so is proc and cooldown monitoring.
Anyway, my point is that it's different play styles. They're not for everyone, which is why it's so great that we have three different specs to choose from.

Slick, I didn't read any BM dissing in any of the posts. The thread did take a left turn into BM-land when someone (*cough*) pointed out that whole 'exotic talent' thing, so it's justified for those that don't care about that aspect of the class to voice their concern about the changes.

On another (very related) note: Rhy, I agree, I'm worried about them making BM hunters have to rely on exotic pets. Hopefully they'll find a way to balance it.

[Saturo]

Hell, I have a hard time keeping the pet up while soloing. If I'm planning to take, say, a group elite mob down, it's because I can nuke it down quickly, not because I cast Mend Pet and Cower. (Seriously. I NEVER remember them!)

BM just isn't for me.

[Slickrock]

no Slickrock i'm allowed to not like the play style of Bm its every thing about BM i don't like and its not a reason to rant about it im allowed to state my opinion about a spec i wasnt dissing it was just saying how i feel about it.

I apologize if I came off strong, and I certainly respect everyone's right to an opinion, but several "OMG I don't wanna raid as BM" posts in a row kinda set me off.

BUT, my point remains, BM is going to change radically, and just because exotics MIGHT do extra damage doesn't mean the sky is falling on MM. Let's wait for some numbers from well into beta before we start saying something is king? ok? we don't even know if the BM specials are dps, they might all be utility for all we know now.

So if you hated BM for the playstyle, then good for you, because it is gonna change the most of any spec. It's likely going to require MUCH more coordination than in the past.

And if I seem a bit jaded here, it's because later on the BRK forums had the same fights. Nothing draws out venom like BM.

My last thought on it turns the argument around. Thing I hated about MM was the pet. Always seemed like a gimped afterthought. I'd rather just have the stat-stick.

[Slickrock]

Hell, I have a hard time keeping the pet up while soloing. If I'm planning to take, say, a group elite mob down, it's because I can nuke it down quickly, not because I cast Mend Pet and Cower. (Seriously. I NEVER remember them!)

BM just isn't for me.

Well, you do gotta watch the health. (I never use cower...)

But the only time I've ever REALLY had trouble is the new Ahune fight. If this fight was permanent as part of a dungeon, I'd respec MM for it. Ahune is just destroying my Trex every time. It's gotten to the point where I put him on passive and keep him at my side until it's time to attack the core. If we have more fights like that in Cata, BM might be in trouble.

[Slickrock]

Slick, I didn't read any BM dissing in any of the posts. The thread did take a left turn into BM-land when someone (*cough*) pointed out that whole 'exotic talent' thing, so it's justified for those that don't care about that aspect of the class to voice their concern about the changes.

On another (very related) note: Rhy, I agree, I'm worried about them making BM hunters have to rely on exotic pets. Hopefully they'll find a way to balance it.

True, we all have a right to opinions.

Seemed like some of this was the carryover from the "everyone should have exotics" thread.

Regardless, until we see what the pet specials and exotic specials are, all we know is that the overall pet playing field is going to be leveled quite a bit.

[Vephriel]

Hehe, well you're not the only one Slick. I really enjoy BM even for raiding. ^^ Never been anything but.

Oh, and for Ahune having your pet on passive is definitely the way to go. Only send them in when it's the Frozen Core. Otherwise they just rush to their death.