Forever pet family data

[Wain]

Hey all, I'd really appreciate some feedback and explanations here. I'm not going to be playing Forever but I'm trying to put together a Forever version of our site, if I can.

I'm starting to compile the background framework for Forever and am currently looking at family data.

Below is a table composed of data from vanilla Classic, but with:
- Owls modified and expanded to become Birds of Prey. In retail, this happened during WotLK.
- New families: Core Hounds (added in WotLK) and Foxes (added in Cata). I think these are the only two new families?

Can anyone confirm if the food data and basic attack skills (bite, claw etc.) are correct?

As for "Tree', DPS, Armor, and Health data, these are difficult to determine. I'm not sure how Mania measured these originally (and even if she were still with us whether she'd remember after all this time), and if they apply to Forever the way they did in Classic. The qualitative data, like 'defensive' or 'medium', are based on comparing that family's stats against the average, and aren't something official. All these were removed as pet families moved to an official talent tree system in WotLK.

Fundamentally, the Forever pet ability system is pretty much the same as Classic, isn't it?

Family	Tree	Basic Skill	Diet	DPS Modifier	DPS Qualifier	Armor Modifier	Armor Qualifier	Health Modifier	Health Qualifier
Bat	offensive	bite	fruit, fungus	1.07	High	1	Low	1	Medium
Bear	defensive	claw	bread, cheese, fish, fruit, fungus, meat	0.91	Low	1.05	Medium	1.08	High
Boar	defensive	bite	bread, cheese, fish, fruit, fungus, meat	0.9	Low	1.09	Medium	1.04	High
Carrion Bird	general	bite	fish, meat	1	Medium	1.05	Medium	1	Medium
Cat	offensive	claw	fish, meat	1.1	High	1	Low	0.98	Medium
Crab	defensive	claw	bread, fish, fruit, fungus	0.95	Low	1.13	High	0.96	Low
Crocolisk	defensive	bite	fish, meat	1	Medium	1.1	High	0.95	Low
Gorilla	defensive	smack	fruit, fungus	1.02	Medium	1	Low	1.04	High
Hyena	general	bite	fruit, meat	1	Medium	1.05	Medium	1	Medium
REBRAND: Bird of Prey	offensive	claw	meat	1.07	High	1	Low	1	Medium
Raptor	offensive	claw	meat	1.1	High	1.03	Low	0.95	Low
Scorpid	defensive	claw	meat	0.94	Low	1.1	High	1	Medium
Spider	offensive	bite	meat	1.07	High	1	Low	1	Medium
Tallstrider	defensive	claw	cheese, fruit, fungus	1	Medium	1	Low	1.05	High
Turtle	defensive	bite	fish, fruit, fungus, raw fish	0.9	Low	1.13	High	1	Medium
Wind Serpent	offensive	bite	bread, cheese, fish	1.07	High	1	Low	1	Medium
Wolf	general	bite	meat	1	Medium	1.05	Medium	1	Medium
NEW: Core Hound	offensive?	bite	meat	?	?	?	?	?	?
NEW: Fox	general?	bite	meat	?	?	?	?	?	?

[Wain]

[Reserved for info about family skills / abilities]

[xWillawisp]

Hi Wain! Logging into the beta now to go test as many families as I can to try and respond in a bit with confirmations or any changes - will edit this to reflect.

So far, the pet system does seem fundamentally classic without a ton of changes. Mostly things seem to have been added, like a few little abilities or families.

Edits from this point on:
I don't seem to be able to really find whether they're sorted as cunning / ferocity / tenacity, but some get passives to attack speed or health so I'd imagine that's what notes their specialty? Will try to list when available

Oh! Also, in case it's helpful, the UI lists pet information here such as:
Health: Increased by Master's Stamina, Every 1 Stamina adds 2 Health
Armor: Increased by 30% of Master's Armor, Damage Reduction from Armor cannot exceed 75%
Attack Power: Increased by 10% of Master's Attack Power from whichever is higher: Melee or Ranged, Every 14 Attack power adds 1 damage per second
Critical Strike: Increased by 100% of Master's Critical Strike Chance

Attack Speed does seem normalized at 2.00

The beta goes to level 20 right now, so I can't field test any Corehounds yet. When it increases to 30, I should be able to pick up Beast Lore at 24 and corpse run my way to information.

*NEW* Fox | Meat | Bite | Trickster's Dance: (Rank 1, 10 Focus, 3 min CD. Increases your pet's chance to Dodge by 50% and decreases the time between your pet's attacks by 30%. Lasts 12 sec.)

Spider | Meat | Bite

Turtle | Fish, Fungus, Fruit, Raw Fish | Bite

Wolf | Meat | Bite

Carrion Bird | Meat, Fish |

Hyena | Meat, Fruit | Tendon Rip: (Rank 1, Tears at an enemy's legs for 12 damage over 9 sec and reduces movement speed by 50% for 9 sec.)

Raptor | Meat | Bite | Savage Rend: (Rank 1, 50 focus, Instant, Melee, Slash an enemy with Razor Talons, causing the target to Bleed for 30 damage over 18 sec.)

Tallstrider | Cheese, Fungus, Fruit | Cower | Faster Attack V (increases attack speed by 54%) - Passive | Dust Cloud (Rank 1, Your Tallstrider kicks up an abrasive cloud of dust, reducing the target's Armor by 65 for 30 sec. Instant and no cooldown other than the GCD, only costs 10 Focus so it's spammable)

[Wain]

Awesome, thanks! I'm trying to get the fox and core hound data to add to the mix. I'll add an abilities table here.

I noticed that Wowhead groups families as "cunning, "ferocity", and "tenacity", but I don't think those classes were used until later expansions, so wondering if Wowhead is wrong or if they've ported them to this version of Classic.

[Mottik]

If we're getting corehounds, I wonder if they're planning on adding other exotics later?

[Wain]

Yeah! I haven't seen any sign of an exotic tag yet, but maybe there is one. I actually hope they'll leave it out and everyone can tame them.

[Wain]

Hyenas have Tendon Rip?? Hmm, I wonder if all families are getting more abilities than they had in Classic.

[Wain]

Yeah, looks like a bunch of families that didn't have a special ability in vanilla Classic have been given one in Forever. Tallstriders have Dust Cloud, for example.

[Wain]

I updated the food values to match the official ones in the game database.

Oddly, they included two food categories not from Vanilla: 'raw fish' and 'raw meat'. Raw fish is currently assigned to just one family: Turtles, and raw meat isn't used. Both seemed like silly over-complications when first introduced and still seem that way today. Pets are tamed from wild beasts, and which of those would logically only consume cooked food?

[Wain]

Here's what I can glean from the database regarding changes to Forever family abilities compared to Classic (Vanilla). Plus some questions.

Please let me know if you can confirm anything here or know that something I have is wrong. Thanks!

Questions:
- I need to know talent point cost for all new abilities, and reconfirm for old.
- I need to know if any new abilities (other than the passives available to all classes) can be learned from trainers or if they're all learned in the wild.
- Oddity: Lava Breath (core hound ability), both ranks are currently learned at level 48, according to Wowhead. Seems like one should be higher than the other..
- Oddity: Slower Attack doesn't have a rank 1, only 2 & 3.
- Oddity: Fast Attack currently says that all ranks can be learned at level 1.


Differences to Vanilla Classic:

- New ability for all families: Faster Attack (ranks 1-7). Increases attack speed. Oddly, all 7 ranks are marked as available at level 1. Not sure if this should be right.
- New ability for all families: Slower Attack (ranks 2-3). Decreases attack speed. Both ranks available at level 1. Maybe it's still in development? When would hunters use this?
- Resistance abilities (Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, Shadow) for all families seem to be limited to 4 ranks, previously 5 in Classic.
- Shadow Resistance ranks 3 & 4 are both marked as available at level 40. By comparison with other resistances, rank 5 should probably be level 50.
- Great Stamina and Natural Armor rank 1 now available at level 1 not 10. Otherwise neither has changed.

- Bats no longer have Screech. Seems like they're lacking at least one ability as a result?
- Bears now have Dash and Swipe.
- Birds of Prey (formerly Owls) no longer have Screech, but instead have Mine! (damage plus 4 sec disarm).
- Boars unchanged (Dash and Charge) except Charge now adds more melee attack power to most ranks (bit less to rank 6).
- Carrion Birds: Screech renamed to Demoralizing Screech, with damage and duration increased but otherwise seems same.
- Cats unchanged (Dash and Prowl).
- Core Hounds (new) have Bite and Lava Breath (damage plus reduces target casting speed).
- Crabs now have Dash and Pinch.
- Crocolisks now have Dash and Dismember.
- Foxes (new family) have Bite, Dash, Trickster's Dance (inc. Dodge, dec. attack time).
- Gorillas now have Dash. Thunderstomp has an extra rank added (4) and damage values in other ranks have been reduced to accommodate it.
- Hyenas now have Tendon Rip (damage and movement speed reduction).
- Raptors now have Dash and Savage Rend.
- Scorpids now have Dash. Scorpid Poison does less damage than Classic.
- Spiders now have Dash and Web (damage over time plus immobilize).
- Tallstriders now have Dust Cloud (reduces opponent's Armor). Shell shield now has increased time between player attacks but also increases damage.
- Turtles now have Dash (which seems funny). Shell Shield has also changed a bit: it now increases the time between your pet's attacks by more (60% compared to 43% in Vanilla), but now deals more damage with each attack.
- Wind Serpents unchanged, except Lightning Breath does a little less damage.


Ability Page

I have a really rough version of the Forever site working, but it currently only has original Classic looks and pets. It lists the new families and abilities, though.
See: https://www.wow-petopia.com/forever/abilities.php

[xWillawisp]

Made a brand new hunter that hasn't tamed anything to double check the trained abilities. Attached are direct screenshots of Forever's pet trainer for comparison. You're right about the higher ranked resistances.

So far, any new abilities like Savage Rend keep disappearing from my Beast Training tab when relogging or sometimes even zoning into new areas. (I have reported this)

Slower Attack / Faster Attack seems hard to pin down. A level 16 Tallstrider in the Barrens had rank 5. I went to Mulgore and tamed several types of lower level Tallstrider, and so far none of them have it at all. It doesn't seem to be learnable either, as it's passive. Edit: Tamed a Galestrider (Tallstrider family) level 9 on Zephras Isle, and it too has Faster Attack V.

So far the training point costs for learning skills: (Going to go pick up more today so we can continue the comparison!)
Bite Rank 1 - 1 TP
Claw Rank 1 - 1 TP
Great Stamina Rank 1 - 5 TP
Growl Rank 1 - No Points (as per usual)
Natural Armor Rank 1 - 1 TP
Cower Rank 1 - (level 5) 8 TP
Bite Rank 2 - (Level 8) 4 TP
Claw Rank 2 - (Level 8) 4 TP
Growl Rank 2 - (Level 10) None
Furious Howl 1 - (Level 10) 10 TP
Great Stamina Rank 2 - (Level 12) 10 TP
Natural Armor Rank 2 - (Level 12) 5 TP
Bite Rank 3 - (Level 16) 7 TP

[xWillawisp]

I have a really rough version of the Forever site working, but it currently only has original Classic looks and pets. It lists the new families and abilities, though.
See: https://www.wow-petopia.com/forever/abilities.php

Looks really great so far!!