The state of Beastmastry?

[Mr. Perfect]

I recently dual speced Marks after playing BM for years, and was surprised at how much more damage the Marks build does. So I'm wondering if anyone has played around with the Cataclysm BM spec? Is it viable for something? Raiding, hopefully?

[Slickrock]

Well, right now in Wrath with maxxed gear (gemming for Arp), MM is 10-15% ahead.

For Cata? too soon to tell. The talent pass isn't complete, and pets have not been reviewed at all. With the number of significant changes they are making it's too soon to tell.

[Anansi]

From looking at the talents and new abilities, I suspect BM will be getting a pretty solid boost. Will it rival Marks and Survival in end-game, that's far too soon to speculate.

I'm guessing that all three specs will be fairly competitive. Undoubtedly one will pull ahead but I do not think we'll see such a divide as we do now. With the new Focus system it seems to me that player skill is going to factor in extremely high in regards to Focus management.

[Sarayana]

From looking at the talents and new abilities, I suspect BM will be getting a pretty solid boost. Will it rival Marks and Survival in end-game, that's far too soon to speculate.

I'm guessing that all three specs will be fairly competitive. Undoubtedly one will pull ahead but I do not think we'll see such a divide as we do now. With the new Focus system it seems to me that player skill is going to factor in extremely high in regards to Focus management.

Couldn't have said it better myself. First of all, it really is too soon to say, but secondly, what we'll see is that the really skilled players will be good no matter what spec they are.

I look forward to it. It really looks like it'll be (more!!) fun to be a hunter in Cata.

[FuzzyDolly]

It really looks like it'll be (more!!) fun to be a hunter in Cata.

God I hope so. I just hope people will accept BM hunters for who they are and not who they want them to be. I don't understand why no other class gets as much grief as hunters over choice of specs. I really hope they move on to berating another class in Cat, cause if it doesn't get better, I might just have to find another game to play.

[Dizzy]

BM is my favorite spec, because it's all about the pet, and that's the main reason i play a hunter.

it IS the lowest DPS spec of our three trees, but geared right and played right it is still very viable in raids.

i haven't read anything about cata, but i hope they make it so the specs are either more even or at least similar to what they are now.

I don't think BM should be the best, cuz we have the coolest ability.

i do think however that they should make exotic pets.. like Spirit beasts, should be much stronger.

T-rex is fine for being the best, but a wolf shouldn't be second best to that.

but i guess they're changing that in cata anyway.

hopefully exotic pets will be stronger regardless :p

[Sarayana]

It really looks like it'll be (more!!) fun to be a hunter in Cata.

God I hope so. I just hope people will accept BM hunters for who they are and not who they want them to be. I don't understand why no other class gets as much grief as hunters over choice of specs. I really hope they move on to berating another class in Cat, cause if it doesn't get better, I might just have to find another game to play.

Well think about it - any hybrid class won't get the same grief simply because it's not a matter of choosing between high dps or higher dps (after all, you're not going to tell your tank or healer to go spec ret, ya know?). That leaves mages, rogues, and warlocks. It's hard to identify a rogue's spec, and the one warlock spec that stands out is also the one that buffs the group the most (demonology, with the demon form talent). On the other hand, mages are more easy to identify by spec, and I've seen quite a few mages get criticized for their choice of spec. It's just, nothing stands out like a big red [insert exotic beast here], you know?

Generally, criticism comes from players that a) think they have any business telling others how to play (which it totally is, once they start paying their monthly fee, amirite?) and b) praise themselves on being "knowledgeable" about a class they don't play. (My general experience has been that the players that like to comment and critique in the L2PlayNub style don't actually play the class if you press them on the issue.)
Therefore, a) tell them to suck it, and b) /ignore them.
That'd be my advice, anyway.

Oh, and my favourite thing is to have them eat their words. You tellin' me frost sucks? Well, how does my 6k dps taste? Like sour grapes, perhaps? Of course, that requires the player to have the time to gear and research their character, and I know not everyone has that kind of time, but I can tell ya I have a wicked grin every time I see some "friendly advice" about respeccing be answered by insane dps.

[Sarayana]

it IS the lowest DPS spec of our three trees, but geared right and played right it is still very viable in raids.

That's not correct. It's about on par with survival now. Marksman is roughly 10-15% ahead of the two. A geared BM hunter can definitely pump out the dps and is more than raid viable.

The problem is that old stereotypes linger and BM got such a brutal overhaul at the start of Wrath that people think it sucks. It really doesn't.

(Sorry for the double post, I'm lazy >.>)

[Saturo]

it IS the lowest DPS spec of our three trees, but geared right and played right it is still very viable in raids.

That's not correct. It's about on par with survival now. Marksman is roughly 10-15% ahead of the two. A geared BM hunter can definitely pump out the dps and is more than raid viable.

The problem is that old stereotypes linger and BM got such a brutal overhaul at the start of Wrath that people think it sucks. It really doesn't.

(Sorry for the double post, I'm lazy >.>)

I do more DPS with SV than BM.
Even in the spreadsheet.

[Sarayana]

it IS the lowest DPS spec of our three trees, but geared right and played right it is still very viable in raids.

That's not correct. It's about on par with survival now. Marksman is roughly 10-15% ahead of the two. A geared BM hunter can definitely pump out the dps and is more than raid viable.

The problem is that old stereotypes linger and BM got such a brutal overhaul at the start of Wrath that people think it sucks. It really doesn't.

(Sorry for the double post, I'm lazy >.>)

I do more DPS with SV than BM.
Even in the spreadsheet.

The general consensus is that 3.3 (I think it was) fixed most of that imbalance. They boosted a few BM talents in that patch, iirc, to bring it up to par. My personal experience is the same - I put out the same dps in the two specs, and I'm geared for SV.

[Anansi]

Generally, criticism comes from players that a) think they have any business telling others how to play (which it totally is, once they start paying their monthly fee, amirite?) and b) praise themselves on being "knowledgeable" about a class they don't play. (My general experience has been that the players that like to comment and critique in the L2PlayNub style don't actually play the class if you press them on the issue.)
Therefore, a) tell them to suck it, and b) /ignore them.
That'd be my advice, anyway.

Pretty much. Even in my guild I am "informed" of Hunter facts, which range from totally wrong to really off-base. It baffles me that people try to tell other players how to play their characters; I'd never presume to tell a Mage how to spec, I only comment on classes/specs I know and understand, and that's Hunters and Elemental and Resto Shaman. And even then I don't critcise them to their face (though that Resto Shaman with a 0/0/71 spec does get snarky comments on my private friends-only chat channel :p ).

As for the state of the three Hunter specs now, all things being equal BM is the lowest DPS, but never are all things equal. A well played raid geared BM Hunter can blow a poorly played Marksman Hunter off the charts. But a skilled Hunter player will get more DPS out of Marksmanship then either of the other specs.
Cataclysm looks to be changing that; looking over the three trees my suspicions are all three will be pretty close and definitely all three will be raid-worthy. Marksmanship looks to be getting nerfed a bit (ie no more Piercing Shots and we're essentially losing Kill Command), BM looks like it's getting solid buffs and Survival is getting some notable upgrades.

[Kalliope]

As for the state of the three Hunter specs now, all things being equal BM is the lowest DPS, but never are all things equal. A well played raid geared BM Hunter can blow a poorly played Marksman Hunter off the charts. But a skilled Hunter player will get more DPS out of Marksmanship then either of the other specs.

It's true! I've got the WMOs to prove it! (And I'm doubtful that I'm as skilled as some of the true BM raiders in this forum either.)

Cataclysm looks to be changing that; looking over the three trees my suspicions are all three will be pretty close and definitely all three will be raid-worthy. Marksmanship looks to be getting nerfed a bit (ie no more Piercing Shots and we're essentially losing Kill Command), BM looks like it's getting solid buffs and Survival is getting some notable upgrades.

Piercing Shots is still on the current talent tree for marks, as far as I've seen. The nerfs are probably going to be focus-related for marks. We'll have more shots that use large amounts of focus than the other specs, which means we'll have to ration better. Our burst should be lowered accordingly. Course, this is all theory; hard to tell at this point. Piercing Shots does still seem to be there, though, unless I missed a new build or something.

[cowmuflage]

I do like my Piercing Shots.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Last time I checked, SV and BM were doing comparable damage for me, which of course means I stayed BM. *Laughs* I do have Marksman as my dual, but I don't really enjoy it, even if it does put out better numbers. I can do just fine in my BM!

As for Cataclysm, it's just to soon to tell. For one, they haven't done the pet's yet, so right now they are stuck in Wrath, while everything else is being shifted up to Cata. For another, the specs themselves are still in a massive state of flux as they change over to a focus based system. Give it another month or two to settle out, and we'll see where things land.

[Undra]

With mastery giving the devs something to fiddle around with, I expect that all three specs will give similar dps and it will come down to a matter of playstyle and raid utility as to which a hunter will bring on a given night. but it is way way to early than to give anything more than hopeful shrugs