Build 12479 - Random Hunter Talent Tree Screenshots

[Saturo]

Look at the Demo locks. They get a Felguard. That's a serious DPS increase, in addition to being appropriate for the class. BM Hunters get a weak stun on a long cooldown.

EDIT: Ryai, if you want to level as MM or SV, your pet will never hold aggro. I have problem enough with BM-pets. MM and SV hunters solo by kiting, or killing the mob in two shots.

[Ryai]

Look at the Demo locks. They get a Felguard. That's a serious DPS increase, in addition to being appropriate for the class. BM Hunters get a weak stun on a long cooldown.

Tbh not just them anymore, if you look at all the trees, everything gets either their 51 point talent or a dps talent, or a mix, or something useful for PVP and PVE that increases DPS.

....

and we get a stun

Edit: I just auto/afk at later levels. >_> it's like Paladin 2.0.

[Anansi]

The Felguard is also a core part of the Demo Warlock's DPS. They don't have talents that boost their damage in the same way that Affliction and Destro Warlocks do; Demo Warlock personal DPS is way below Affliction and Destro, but they have a pet to make up for it, just like BM Hunters.

Intimidate is primarily a threat builder with a stun side effect. Looking at it as solely a stun of course makes the talent look shoddy, but it's the threat it makes the pet generate that the real feature. This means your pet can keep that mob held in place, doing maximum damage to it while the Hunter likewise stands still and does maximum damage.

It seems to me that there's a desire for BM Hunters to have all the perqs of high personal damage like other DPS classes, plus the heavy hitting pet, but that's not going to happen. BM is about using the pet to it's absolute fullest potential and getting a lot of effect in that regard.

[Saturo]

I'll just consider myself lucky that I don't play BM, and hope that Blizz eventually gives you guys something good instead. Maybe the combo-point generation for pets, that you use with Kill Command? That would serve the same purpose as what others are getting, since everyone else gets things they use all the way to top level, and in raids and such. Taming exotics is underpowered compared to what others are getting.

EDIT: Anansi, BM Hunters should of course have bad personal DPS, but giving them a goddamned stun instead, is just... Besides, the threat part is only useful when soloing. The spells everyone else gets are useful solo, grouped up and in PvP.

[Ryai]

The Felguard is also a core part of the Demo Warlock's DPS. They don't have talents that boost their damage in the same way that Affliction and Destro Warlocks do; Demo Warlock personal DPS is way below Affliction and Destro, but they have a pet to make up for it, just like BM Hunters.

So, while Felguard is a must have for Demo, the fact that Exotics are going to supposedly be doing more damage than normal pets- 3 abilities to normal pet's 2, supposedly from a Dev, we don't deserve it because it's not 'core' or 'vital' to our DPSing? Ignoring the fact Affliction AND Destro get something?

Intimidate is primarily a threat builder with a stun side effect. Looking at it as solely a stun of course makes the talent look shoddy, but it's the threat it makes the pet generate that the real feature. This means your pet can keep that mob held in place, doing maximum damage to it while the Hunter likewise stands still and does maximum damage.

We already do that. And you know at lv 80, I can 3 shot shit as MM on Yasindra anyways. Without a pet. As BM I can 3 shot it anyways, as my pet does the additional 1shotting. Before lv 80, sure it may be needed, but outside of the 'sure it may be needed', it's just a solo/pvp talent. And a poor one at that, Prot Paladins can get a stun reduction OFF THE BAT for hammer of justice, and since it's so low in the tier now, Holy and Ret after filling out their tree, can get it too. But we have to wait. Even tho we get forced with a useless, damageless stun. It doesn't even do damage on non stunable targets.

It seems to me that there's a desire for BM Hunters to have all the perqs of high personal damage like other DPS classes, plus the heavy hitting pet, but that's not going to happen. BM is about using the pet to it's absolute fullest potential and getting a lot of effect in that regard.

Uh, we're still a DPS class so we should still be doing almost the same DPS? I mean why else would I roll BM? It's not to be all HERPDERP with SHINY PET like several have insulted me for being- like several have let me die in dungeons for being. Yes I have a desire and yes I want to be rewarded for having TAME EXOTIC as our lv 10 mastery, because I mean stop trying to be so hypocritical because SV and MM get two very powerful shots, and we get Intimidate. That is NOTHING to boost the pet. It is a DAMAGELESS ability. It's VERY situational and it has very LITTLE uses outside of some solo situations and PVP.

Tame Exotics would have been the same as Aimed shot and Explosive shot!

This is why we are upset over getting a useless stun.

[Saturo]

You can't compare exotics to Aimed Shot. The unique talents for exotics are highly likely to be utility, and even then it's far too hard to balance a pet spell with a ranged attack.

My opinion is that BM should get the combopoint-pet-thingy to use with Kill Command.

[Ryai]

You can't compare exotics to Aimed Shot. The unique talents for exotics are highly likely to be utility, and even then it's far too hard to balance a pet spell with a ranged attack.

My opinion is that BM should get the combopoint-pet-thingy to use with Kill Command.

I doubt it's going to be utility skills. Since all pets are already going to be getting utility spells- I'm just going by the seat of my pants but it could be ferocity exotics get [Focus Dump] [Debuff] [Family Skill], ofc family skills would probably in the end do the same damage as any other exotic family skill.

Tho the combo point thing wouldn't be so bad too- tho honestly most things will be dead before you really have time to use it before lv 40ish. Unless dungeons are being revamped to compensate for people with BOA gear.

[Slickrock]

We need to see the new pet talent system.. and someone actually test it on beta...

[Saturo]

Just me using what I know. They've said before that they didn't want exotics to be more powerful than non exotics.

Unless they've decided to change their minds.

[Ryai]

Just me using what I know. They've said before that they didn't want exotics to be more powerful than non exotics.

Unless they've decided to change their minds.

Hopefully they did- and don't fall back away from it. It could be from the fact that all pets are basically going to be the same box of cubes. And obviously BM isn't that fair right now. As it is very lack luster imo. We're very pet heavy at the moment, and honestly, the 31 point talent of ours will be beyond abysmally useless unless they make some heavy changes to pet talent trees and exotics actually do the increased damage or atleast have a 3rd skill compared to a normal pet's 2.

Tho honestly all the builds I've tinkered with atm feel like a disgruntled mess of solo/pvp/pve.

Edit: Also we have no shot now. Remember Cobra was said to be 'BM SHOT that the other two trees could use too!' but I see no Cobra Shot boosting talents. Meaning they even flip flopped about that. Meaning BM will most likely be spamming steady over Cobra unless on I guess nature weak mobs.

Do we know if the SS glyph is still ingame, and if the Steady glyph affects Cobra doing increased damage on targets afflicted by Serpent Sting?

[Saturo]

Tho honestly all the builds I've tinkered with atm feel like a disgruntled mess of solo/pvp/pve.

That's what happens when you try to fix what ain't broken.

[Jedi8187]

Just a note on felguard, GC said at some point they were not confident with giving it to a warlock who hadn't even gotten voidalker yet. This is the first pass, expect that to change (and i think felguard will, although if not my gnomelock is so happy atm).

[Saturo]

They're giving us Voidies at 8 now, I think they're removing all class quests.

[Ryai]

They're giving us Voidies at 8 now, I think they're removing all class quests.

They better not be removing the Warlock/Pally mount quests. Ffffffffffffffffffff.

Also- wtf is with removing the quests. I can understand at lv 1 for getting an Imp, but the others..?

[Sarayana]

I don't want to get into a big discussion about it, but I think Saturo raises an excellent point. Aimed Shot and Explosive Shot are both valuable in MM and SV hunters' rotations regardless of what they're doing. If I level as BM through the dungeon finder system (and that is my preferred mode of leveling at the moment, though of course that may change with Cata and all the new quests) and I pop Intimidation during fights, I'll upset the tank/dps balance and piss the tank off. Yes, it's a useful tool for those occasions where a mob is chewing on the healer, and I'll gladly have it as a skill for those types of situations, but if I didn't have it, I would find another way to deal with that.

I completely agree with what you're saying Anansi, BM is about the pet holding aggro, it's a pet micromanagement game, and that's a big part of the appeal of BM for me. I just would like a less situational skill to be the 10 point skill, that's all.

All that being said, however, it won't stop me from leveling yet another BM hunter in Cata. Besides, as everyone has said over and over, it's beta. There's no point in getting our panties in a bunch over something that's not even guaranteed to make it live.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

One question I am wondering is, why didn't we get Beastial Wrath? I mean I KNOW they said they weren't going to give it to us, but they also said that about Divine Storm and the Felguard. It is kind of a core part of our class, and learning WHEN to BW is an important part of both PvP and PvE.

Also I would like to point out that right now, both SV and MM get the same benefit out of Kill Command as BM. "Kill Command-Give the command to kill, causing your pet to instantly inflict [ 53% of RAP + 1149.98 ] damage to its target. Your Pets happiness increases the damage done.
40 Focus, 45 yd range, Instant, 6 sec cooldown" BM will be able to make it cheaper, and critical 10% more, but other wise the other two specs will be doing at LEAST as much damage as us with what is SUPPOSED to be our signature attack. And the kicker? They can still do THEIR signature shots.

And finally, I want you all to go back and take a look at the BM talent tree. You'll notice, among other things, that there are very few things there to make our pet deal more damage. In fact, aside from BW and Ferocious inspiration, nothing. There are a few things to make out pet's hit a little more often, but if you'll notice, Frenzy had it's effect halved, and has to stack FIVE TIMES now for it to even get up to half of it's old effect. The replacement is Focus Fire, which CONSUMES those five stacks to grant an ENTIRE ten focus, and adding 15% haste to pet and hunter. Sounds alright, right? Until you realize that serpents swiftness is gone. Gone gone gone.

And now for the best part. You know the spec specific ability that make's our pet's stronger? We don't get it until 75. It's learned from the trainer at seventy five. What that means is that MM won't be that far behind our pets in damage, and SV'S, thanks you HvS, will actually be STRONGER for the better part of the lower levels.

So basically no, we don't even get stronger pet's early on.

Small Edit, because I forgot to add one last insult to injury. If Blizzard insists on their system of 'every other levelish. Sort of.' then we won't even be taming exotics until level 70.

[Saturo]

Aren't frenzystacks supposed to be BM only, and improve the damage done by Kill Command?

[Palladiamorsdeus]

"Focus Fire: Instant Thirty second cooldown - Consumes your pet's Frenzy, restoring ten focus to your pet and increasing your ranged attack speed by 3% per stack. Lasts 15 seconds."

It was, but they changed it to only increase the hunters haste for one, and to restore focus to the pet for two.

[Saturo]

Well, that's stupid. I kind of liked the idea of "Hunter Combopoints", even tough I don't play BM.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

The only, uh, upside? Is that frenzy stacks are now guarenteed on hit. OF course, what pet DIDN'T critical in the first five of it's attacks prior? AND for 15% more effect to boot. Bah.