Intimidation. Wooo.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Depends on what I am doing. I've got intimidation on my main bar located at the end for when I need to interupt, stun, finish off a healer, give myself some breathing room, or saving a healer. So I have uses for it. But I don't consider it a core mechanic. It's to short of a stun on to long of a cooldown.

[Ellaran]

Maybe Blizzard thinks having Bestial Wrath at lvl 10 or being able to tame Exotics at 10 is overpowered or something. But after thinking about it, I realized that being a Beast Master means that you'll spend your time learning how to control your pet. And since the pet is the core mechanic of being BM, what's used as the spec special doesn't matter since BM's defining point is right there beside you. So Blizz pretty much just said "Whatever" and picked the first thing they pulled out of a hat as the BM's lvl 10 freebie.

[Kalliope]

Well, I know it's not much consolation, but it looks like scatter shot is becoming a level 15 BASELINE hunter skill, which gives BM hunters an extra CCing type ability for free. I mean, it goes to everyone anyway, but BM hunters who PvPed would have to choose between scatter and (the LK version of) aimed shot. Since you HAD to have the mortal strike debuff, it was a no brainer to take aimed over scatter. Survival and marks hunters never had to make that choice.

It's something, anyway.

[Sarayana]

Yeah I read that Kalli. With Trap Launcher and Scatter Shot (and Intimidation, I suppose >.>) we'll be pretty efficient CCers again. That's one thing I miss dearly from TBC. Trap dancing, kiting, all that jazz. My friend and I always competed about who could trap/los kite/trap/etc. the longest. Magister's Terrace was great for that! Oh, and Shattered Halls I think? One of the Hellfire heroics, anyway. /reminisce

[Adam-Savage]

Yes, because evidently that 500 or so DPS from the pet is far more important than dealing damage. Or did you mean ALL defensive talents, which is... Cower?

Pets are laughable in PvP. Your impression of a strong, unkillable pet only means that your enemies so far haven't done AoE in it's proximity.

Then there idiots and there not healing the pet before sending it in and it's got low Armour/health. Pet's do not die very quickly unless a bunch of people gang up on it or your buffed with tenacity you basically 3 shot the pet.

[Ryai]

Yes, because evidently that 500 or so DPS from the pet is far more important than dealing damage. Or did you mean ALL defensive talents, which is... Cower?

Pets are laughable in PvP. Your impression of a strong, unkillable pet only means that your enemies so far haven't done AoE in it's proximity.

Then there idiots and there not healing the pet before sending it in and it's got low Armour/health. Pet's do not die very quickly unless a bunch of people gang up on it or your buffed with tenacity you basically 3 shot the pet.

I heal pet. I put cower on pet.

Blamo pet is dead- granted this is Winters Grasp so that may take into affect, and my pet isn't specced in pet survival talents, but you guys also need to keep in mind that there's also an imbalance of gear, PVE and PVP gear, top end players will have better gear, and better gear means either A: better pets that can't be one/two/three/four shot or, players who can 4 shot said pets.

I mean I remember a while ago there was a tank in AV once.

Enemy side- human pally I think. 50k hp. Before ICC and I think barely after ToC was opened up [raid]. He steamed over horde. Even the PVP players were steam rolled by him- that's the sort of imbalance I mean, and ofc while seemingly unfair, it's still fair aslong as he wasn't an ebayer and all that and with that sort of imbalancing, it will seem all pets can be oneshot no matter the cause.

Hell before Blizzared nerfed AOE damage, retridins oneshot my pets. Mages oneshot. Warlocks oneshot.

Now, they die if focuse fired on by one player, no matter what I do. While I'm not trying to defend nor attack, the point is, for some people pets will still be fragile as glass, and for others, tough as nails. Doesn't matter how you specc them or what gear you have, it all depends really on how you stack against the other player.

[Kalliope]

Blamo pet is dead- granted this is Winters Grasp so that may take into affect

Yeah, bgs, Wintergrasp, and world PvP aren't balanced in the sense that people and pets can get burst down like nothing because of the sheer imbalance of people.

So saying "I can't keep my pet alive" in any of those places isn't really a fair gauge.

[Mania]

But that's a big chunk of PvP, isn't it?

[Saturo]

But that's a big chunk of PvP, isn't it?

It's pretty much every kind of PvP, except for arenas, duels and occasional world PvP, and world PvP doesn't really count as PvP, as most of the time the attcker will eithe be several levels higher or in better gear, otherwise they'll avoid confrontation.

Grouping the majority of PvP up like that won't work.

[Kalliope]

It's a large part of it, yes, but it's not especially fair to say that pets can't survive in a high pressure situation like that, since players with high resilience don't last in them either - which means pets wouldn't stand a chance, no matter how well you take care of them. This is actually why group PvP on a hunter is really fun. You're not penalized by silences from the casters and you're not in melee getting smashed in the face (unless you get piled on, which is a different story, since then you ARE in melee, but think about poor melee classes who don't have a choice in the matter).

Arenas and duels, the more controlled forms of PvP, are a better way of gauging pet survivability. It's not a perfect judge, since gear differences still come into play, but at least you don't have more than five people against you at a time. Pets last longer in 2s and 3s (they DO get focused, though, which is where pet management comes into play), and in 5s, the pressure is generally on the hunter rather than the pet.

[Aquillian]

Man, I use intimidation all the time o.o I interrupt casters, stop runaway mobs from bringing friends, snag flag carriers/healers, the list goes on... I had no idea it was so disliked! =( Having said that, I agree it's pretty boring for the BM's 'special', meh! I'd rather have the +5 pet talent points/exotic pets, or better, BW...

[Ryai]

Man, I use intimidation all the time o.o I interrupt casters, stop runaway mobs from bringing friends, snag flag carriers/healers, the list goes on... I had no idea it was so disliked! =( Having said that, I agree it's pretty boring for the BM's 'special', meh! I'd rather have the +5 pet talent points/exotic pets, or better, BW...

We're not really 'hating' it, it's just as I and others have said, Intimidation at higher levels is normally a PVP move. For PVE there's very few applications for it. It's just very situational.

[Sarayana]

I certainly don't hate it. I just don't think it's a reasonable skill to give new players to teach them something that "defines" the spec, because it's so situational. I understand that having BM at level 10 will be overpowered, and I get that they want exotics to be that "carrot" that we work towards when leveling, but there are so many great ways they could have implemented something that's 1) less situational and 2) teaches that symbiotic relationship with our pets without relying on something that's not even unique to the spec! The idea Saturo and Kalli were talking about up above is a perfect example of how they could have done it.

But by all means, leave Intimidation in.

[Saturo]

Exotics wouldn't be overpowered. They'd be underpowered against many of the things the other classes are getting.

But it's either that or BW.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I find it kind of funny that BW was on the list of things they stated would NOT be gotten, and if memory serves, it's the only thing currently that they still don't plan giving at level 10. DS is in, and they are talking about Shadow form and Moonking as well.

[Kalliope]

BW is a percentage of damage, whereas divine storm is a set number related to the damage of the paladin's weapon. It makes sense that DS could be balanced for level 10 and BW couldn't be.

[Saturo]

But the damage that BW enhances would be based on your damage, regardless.

[Kalliope]

But the damage that BW enhances would be based on your damage, regardless.

True, but it comes down to scaling, ultimately. Pets are incredibly powerful at level 10, so allowing them to do even MORE damage would be crazy.

[Sarayana]

Exotics wouldn't be overpowered. They'd be underpowered against many of the things the other classes are getting.

But it's either that or BW.

I didn't say exotics would be overpowered. I was referring to the developer chat on twitter where they said that they wanted to maintain that "carrot" for leveling in the form of a 31-point talent that would make the player want to get there faster and feel integral to the playstyle of the spec.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Which is a pretty big load, when you consider that several classes already got those tasty carrots, and at level 10.