So, foxes then?!

[Kirjava]

Ok, so it's not strictly WoW related, but I felt this was worth sharing with people after the feedback on here re the Cata' foxes... ... I WANT ONE!
www.sibfox.com

[Saturo]

Why would you want a fox for a pet? They stink and they're not exactly friendly in my experience.

[Kirjava]

Because these are special ones which are really really friendly... if you look at the "media" page and watch the second vid you'll see my point

[Rhyela]

When I went to the Columbus Zoo and saw an Arctic fox in person for the first time, I (jokingly) told my husband I wanted one. I didn't know having one was actually possible!!! But, yeesh, $6,000 USD?

I think I about died when I saw the pictures of the kits, though. Cute is an understatement. <3

[Acherontia]

After the specialized breeding they did, and considering foxes' behavior and size, I definitely think fox could be the new 'in-between' common domestic pet. It's halfway between size & behavior with cats & dogs, and beautiful animals.

I don't know about these new breeders of them, the pricing or how well they care for them; I assume it's got to be better than their previous use there, though (fur farm).

As a rundown, iirc, the thing went like this:

At a Russian fur-farm, as an experiment in behavior and to breed more easily-managed foxes, a very rigidly-organized experiment was undertaken to breed "tame" foxes. Over many generations, the fur-foxes were tested for things like how closely they could be approached by a human using utterly neutral, friendly or unfriendly body language; the experiment was so specific that it ranked various areas of the cage and had notations for every behavior the foxes could exhibit.

Only the friendliest foxes were bred. By the end, two fascinating things had happened:

* The foxes' behavior had changed. They barked and wagged their tails like dogs, rolled on their backs at the approach of humans, licked hands and faces etc.

* The foxes' appearance had changed. Floppy, dog-like ears, curled tails and white spotting were prominent. In addition, the proven link between melanin and hormones (mostly adrenaline concentration in animals) surfaced; the more friendly, easily-approachable animals were more often than not dilutes in color (cream instead of red, and so forth).

The most interesting thing that I recall reading was that, at the end, a man walked into a field full of these foxes. They grouped hesitantly, lingering in the field to watch him, and he said it was like they had organized by color; the most fearful--and most distant--foxes were red; then the silvers and blacks were closer, and the very pale foxes approached him (I may have the colors wrong, but you get the idea).

Having wild animals as pets is a whole pandora's box of a discussion and can get pretty emotional. Regardless, these particular animals are being bred anyway; hopefully they will turn out to be more popular as companions than as coats. Whether they are well-off in the hands of the owners of that website I don't know, but the idea in theory is pretty interesting. Their site says you "absolutely can have a fox" but doesn't mention that it's illegal in a lot of places. They talk about "exotic" pets, and cater to America, but I can tell you as an American that those foxes would almost definitely be regarded as a "native" species, and thus illegal to own as a pet. They also don't even mention European "owners." They also mention that breeding them would be "illegal" rather than a breach of contract (even if they didn't come neutered). Regardless, probably better than the fur farm...

TLDR:

The domesticated foxes exhibit both behavioral and physiological changes from their wild forebears. They are friendlier with humans, put their ears down (like dogs), wag their tails when happy, and have begun to vocalize and bark like domesticated dogs. They have also developed color patterns like domesticated dogs and have lost their distinctive musky 'fox smell'.

[Razzy]

I refuse to believe that you can take the wild instinct out of an animal in 50 years.

Those foxes are gonna have some serious mental issues.

[Sarayana]

I refuse to believe that you can take the wild instinct out of an animal in 50 years.

Those foxes are gonna have some serious mental issues.

I'm kinda sorta with ya there... I reserve judgment.

[Mania]

Thank you for the solid background synopsis, Acherontia!

I'd actually been reading about the genetics involved just recently. When you realize that the foxes weren't bred for tail-wagging (etc), but that they nevertheless started tail-wagging (etc) as their general temperament became more human-friendly ... it opens a host of intriguing questions about bio-behavioral feedback mechanisms!

But then, my second college degree was in bio-behavioral anthropology, so these sorts of things are always fascinating to me.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

It's actually not as odd as you might think. An animal raised from birth by humans is going to natural be more mild and gentle then a wild counterpart. A lot of it depends on the type of attention paid to said animal. Certain instincts will of course be there, but you can effect a lot of an animals growth just by your own behavior towards them during their developmental years. Well, developmental times.

[Kurapika]

Oh my goodness! They are finally doing it! I heard about these foxes *years* ago on some tv program about dogs and/or domestication. I really wish I could remember the name of the show. ( I think it was on Discovery, or maybe the History channel?) I have been wondering when we would start seeing these guys on the market.

Of course, as Acherontia pointed out, truly domestic or not they would not be legal in most of the U.S.

[Ryai]

I refuse to believe that you can take the wild instinct out of an animal in 50 years.

Those foxes are gonna have some serious mental issues.

I'm kinda sorta with ya there... I reserve judgment. :|

Um actually, I think you two should understand animals a little bit better.

Lets take, Pigs and Dogs. Both domesticated. But if a pig gets out, and even remotely becomes feral? Oh it's feral for good. It's no longer the little porker you know, it can grow almost twice as buff, it's not fat it gains, it's muscle. It gets hairy, its teeth grow and it becomes this god awful beast that will sooner gore you than look at you.

But if a dog gets loose? More often than not, the dog won't go mad like the pig. And while you may say Dogs are domesticated longer than pigs. They've found proof that dogs were domesticated in as short, if NOT shorter time than pigs. Why?

Just like the Foxes show. The friendlier/outcasted wolves were taken in, given scraps. They've already found proof of wolves becoming distinct species way back when, finding a 'small wolfish dog' and a 'larger wolfish' dog, both at the same time, same place in some dig site. And it wasn't that long after people deduced man started taming wolves.

You guys just need to understand that these animals are no longer wild.

Why would you want a fox for a pet? They stink and they're not exactly friendly in my experience.

All animals stink. And if you want stink? Try dog. Try dog that's been rolling around in wet mud, grass and heaven knows whaat, and you can't get them bathed that very second. You will wish your nose was dead.

[Mania]

Aside: My bearded dragons don't stink. They are too lazy to stink.

[Ryai]

Aside: My bearded dragons don't stink. They are too lazy to stink.

How can something be to lazy to smell XD

[Rawr]

Why would you want a fox for a pet? They stink and they're not exactly friendly in my experience.

Fox musk really does smell but these ones have lost that they smell as much as normal dogs do, act more like dogs and sometimes have floppy ears like dogs

[Mania]

Aside: My bearded dragons don't stink. They are too lazy to stink.

How can something be to lazy to smell XD

They are very lazy indeed.

[Victorelle]

hehe a fox pet sounds fun :3

[Teigan]

.

[Rhyela]

.....Their site says you "absolutely can have a fox" but doesn't mention that it's illegal in a lot of places.

I just want to point out that they did mention legality in their FAQ portion of the website:

Is it legal to own a fox in my State?
Generally, SibFox leaves it to the buyer to research all applicable laws that may interfere with owning a fox so we don't have to raise the price to accommodate legal expenses. However, we are working on a resource about each State's regulations related to exotic pets as well as links to the forms that need to be filed with certain agencies. In the meantime, please review information below as your starting point:


20 states (PINK) have a ban on private ownership of exotic animals — at least large cats (some of them ban all wild cats), wolves, bears, reptiles, most non-human primates: Alaska, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Washington, Wyoming
9 states (GREEN) have a partial ban on private ownership of exotic animals — allows ownership of some exotic animals but precludes others: Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, Virginia
12 states (AQUA) require the "owner" of the exotic animal to obtain a license or permit from the relevant state agency to privately possess the animal (excludes states only requiring import permits): Arizona, Delaware, Indiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas
9 states (BROWN) have no license or permit requirements, but may regulate some aspect thereof (entry permit, veterinary certificate) or have no state statute governing this issue: Alabama, Idaho, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, South Carolina, West Virginia, Wisconsin
More detailed INFORMATION for each State.

But as you pointed out, there wasn't any mention of European prospective buyers.

I'm in Ohio, so there are no license or permit requirements (at least not that I know of without researching deeper). The only thing that would be an obstacle for me owning one is the hefty price tag.

[Saturo]

All animals stink. And if you want stink? Try dog. Try dog that's been rolling around in wet mud, grass and heaven knows whaat, and you can't get them bathed that very second. You will wish your nose was dead.

I've smelled wet dog. I've also smelled fox. Both are bad, but the wet dog smell is temporary. The fox' is permanent. Besides, you can't compare a muddy dog to a clean fox. Because they stink when they're clean too.

[Razzy]

You're right, Ryai, but what I was getting at was that I don't think these foxes are quite safe enough to be bought by a ditsy rich family that will pamper it like their purebred Pomeranian.