Hunter arrows in Cata ... any news yet?

[Saturo]

They've been doing it for years for every profession EXCEPT for engineering, and it's worked fine. Besides, if I understand your post correctly, you want all the perks of high-end recipes, without doing the actual high-end content?

[Sukurachi]

They've been doing it for years for every profession EXCEPT for engineering, and it's worked fine. Besides, if I understand your post correctly, you want all the perks of high-end recipes, without doing the actual high-end content?

no, actually, you don't understand my post correctly.

I don't think that "game-changing to the extent that you will get dropped from a random party for not having it" should be PvP or Raid patterns.

I don't care about the "perks" of high end recipes.

I do want to be able to level my craft to a useful extent as a PvE-er, and a non-PvP-er, non-Raider.

I think people who work hard at the game, despite not participating in PvP / Raids, deserve to be treated to a few perks of their own.

The high-end patterns that one can learn from the trainers are the "PvP sets". Why not make it a PvE set instead?

[Karathyriel]

No more ammo, no more class quests, new talent trees...

The more I hear about Cata changes, the better I feel about quitting WOW.

[Saturo]

Of course, the profession shouldn't be useless without raiding, but right now it's pretty useless regardless. Having some recipes that we can get from raiding and PvPing would be really nice, but of course not all should come from there. I just think that giving everyone the recipes for high-end gear from the trainers is a really bad solution. It would take away the incentive to raid or PvP.

EDIT: Indeed Kara, that's the feeling a lot of us have.

[Slickrock]

Of course, the profession shouldn't be useless without raiding, but right now it's pretty useless regardless. Having some recipes that we can get from raiding and PvPing would be really nice, but of course not all should come from there. I just think that giving everyone the recipes for high-end gear from the trainers is a really bad solution. It would take away the incentive to raid or PvP.

EDIT: Indeed Kara, that's the feeling a lot of us have.

Some thoughts here....

1) Recipies.. since ammo is going away, what I would like to see is BOP crafted weapons that are raid-tier quality. I don't want starter weaps to sell. I want to improve my character through the profession. If they blow it on weapons, there's just not much need to be an Eng. But with the new goggles and the engineering gems, I'll stay an engineer for the fun of it.

2) State of the game. I think they may be trying to change too much. I'll see how the balance goes, but I am scaling back. My pally and shammy are in mothballs, and likely to stay there. (Gonna vendor all the extra gear for the gold.). I don't see myself playing anything besides a hunter again. (Certainly not going to learn all new trees on 3 classes).

3) Breaking point. I do think they are close to muddling things up enough that they may hit a breaking point where they loose a lot of the older players. They almost did with the RealID. But there might be something else soon in game to push us over that edge, and start the exodus.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

My question is, how many people quit over the RealID fiasco, but never came back afterwards?

Now, on a more positive note, it is still WoW. The focus changes are a good thing for hunters, though it needs to find a better balance. Combo points for paladins is working out interestingly, though they need more abilities to use it on. Masteries are going to be great, when they actually get them in game. *Laughs* Not needing ammo anymore is nice, though I uh, still need to remove my quiver.

[Slickrock]

My question is, how many people quit over the RealID fiasco, but never came back afterwards?

Now, on a more positive note, it is still WoW. The focus changes are a good thing for hunters, though it needs to find a better balance. Combo points for paladins is working out interestingly, though they need more abilities to use it on. Masteries are going to be great, when they actually get them in game. *Laughs* Not needing ammo anymore is nice, though I uh, still need to remove my quiver.

I think a lot did leave, and didn't come back, just from what I have seen elsewhere. But, many use 3-month subs, so they were still here when the change was made.

Combo points for pallys.. great for ret, TERRIBLE for Prot. I do NOT want to have to manage combo points when tanking. Forget that. My mace and shield are hung up over that. The problem is they are balancing that for tanking around tank-n-spank fights.. but what happens when the pally needs to kite like on Rotface? Yikes. "Sorry, couldn't taunt that back, I didn't have combo points" NO THANKS.

I would have no problems with those combo points on ret, that seems like it could work.

[Saturo]

Imagine healing with the combopoints then.
"Enrage in 3...2...1.."
*Wipe*
"WTF why didn't you heal!?"
"Sorry, no combopoints."
"Retard."
*You have been removed from the raidgroup*

[Kalliope]

EDIT: Indeed Kara, that's the feeling a lot of us have.

Wouldn't say "a lot," since most of the players posting on these forums are not quitting.

Combo points for pallys.. great for ret, TERRIBLE for Prot. I do NOT want to have to manage combo points when tanking. Forget that. My mace and shield are hung up over that. The problem is they are balancing that for tanking around tank-n-spank fights.. but what happens when the pally needs to kite like on Rotface? Yikes. "Sorry, couldn't taunt that back, I didn't have combo points" NO THANKS.

Try tanking as a dk and not having the runes to do things. I'm all in favor of pally tanking becoming less boring, though I will not be hugely excited to see this implemented poorly. Hopefully, it'll be more like the new rune system, which is supposedly better.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

No no, Slickrock, it doesn't work like that. You still have all of your normal paladin abilities, but certain ones generate holy power. Right now it's Crusader Strike ((Which everone gets)) and holy shock, I am not sure if Prot get's one or is just expected to use Crusader strike. ((Shield of the Righteous is gone)) You then use them to do additional effects. Holy it's a free healing spell, ret it's a damaging strike ((Two technically, since Divine Storm operates off of this now)) and I think for Prot it's a damage mitigation. You also get an additional one at 81 that boosts holy damage done depending on how much holy power you have.

[Saturo]

EDIT: Indeed Kara, that's the feeling a lot of us have.

Wouldn't say "a lot," since most of the players posting on these forums are not quitting.

My usage of "a lot" is fitting, since I was referring to those of us who are quitting. Most of us have that opinion.

[Kalliope]

EDIT: Indeed Kara, that's the feeling a lot of us have.

Wouldn't say "a lot," since most of the players posting on these forums are not quitting.

My usage of "a lot" is fitting, since I was referring to those of us who are quitting. Most of us have that opinion.

That's different. ^_^

[Slickrock]

No no, Slickrock, it doesn't work like that. You still have all of your normal paladin abilities, but certain ones generate holy power. Right now it's Crusader Strike ((Which everone gets)) and holy shock, I am not sure if Prot get's one or is just expected to use Crusader strike. ((Shield of the Righteous is gone)) You then use them to do additional effects. Holy it's a free healing spell, ret it's a damaging strike ((Two technically, since Divine Storm operates off of this now)) and I think for Prot it's a damage mitigation. You also get an additional one at 81 that boosts holy damage done depending on how much holy power you have.

Then they are adding complexity just for the sake of adding complexity. I still don't like it. But that odd thing is they want it more complex, but at the same time they are removing other more "passive" cooldowns...

Either way, I don't want to relearn 2 or more classes now. Don't want to spend that much time in game. And finally, pally tanks are still so much the FOTM, that it's much harder to get a spot in a raid.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I kind of have to agree with you there. At the same time though, Holy and Ret definitely needed something else. I've been holy since day one, and it's just been getting more stale as every other healer got more dynamic. But now they feel the need to completely turn the system on it's head, and it both doesn't make sense, and is slightly annoying. I suppose I should just be happy that I get more healy buttons, but that came at the cost of the entire old system. I can't speak for everyone, but I know a lot of paladins just wanted more buttons to push, and not a total rework.

[Slickrock]

I kind of have to agree with you there. At the same time though, Holy and Ret definitely needed something else.

I agree there. Ret was simplistic but at the same time didn't make much sense. I don't mind it at all there. Can't speak to holy, never done that.

But for prot, I don't want to have to build stacks or combo points in order to maximize threat. If they are making it more like runes, from what I have seen of DKs tanking, that's a place I don't want to go.

One other thing for me. I've got carpal-tunnel and tendonitis, I don't want more buttons to push. I want something I can macro down to a few buttons. I know the kids like being keyboard jockeys, but that's a place I'll never excel. If the game becomes more of a twitch game than a thinking game, I'm out and I'll go try out EVE-online.

The predictable controlable nature of pally tanking suited me well. Things did get a bit boorring on some ICC fights, but, there was plenty to do on others.

[Anansi]

I kind of have to agree with you there. At the same time though, Holy and Ret definitely needed something else. I've been holy since day one, and it's just been getting more stale as every other healer got more dynamic. But now they feel the need to completely turn the system on it's head, and it both doesn't make sense, and is slightly annoying. I suppose I should just be happy that I get more healy buttons, but that came at the cost of the entire old system. I can't speak for everyone, but I know a lot of paladins just wanted more buttons to push, and not a total rework.

I've never played a Paladin and never really intend to do so, but I would say that from what I've seen of Paladins in raids and from chatting with people and friends who play Paladins, the class needs a serious overhaul. The general consensus amongst my Paladin peers is that the class is dead easy to play, so much so that it's boring and the results are phenomenal. I know some feel the class is an insult to their intelligence; they like the class but it's so easy to play it's a bit demeaning in comparison to other classes that have more to do and more effort to achieve comparable results.

When I'm healing on my Shaman I see Paladins just spamming the same spell over and over again and topping the healing chart. When I'm DPSing with my Hunter and managing my cooldowns and procs, I see Ret Paladins spamming the same few abilities and topping DPS. And the players I know freely admit this. So a change is certainly needed it would seem if only for the integrity of the class.

[Saturo]

I agree with you, Anansi. I don't really like what they currently are either, I find it too easy, and somewhat boring, and I'm sure msot others who play pallies agree, but the current changes are a bit too much at the same time. They're changing the very bases of how the class has worked for years, when all they really needed was a little touchup and some more spells. All they've really done right now is change some spells around and implemented a mechanic that really only forces us to wait with some specific attacks until we have enough energy. What pallies need isn't really some mechanics to use less spells, but some mechanics to use more. What we have right now is not really what most pallies wanted.

[Lhel]

Quitting over a class changing or wanting to quit over 'needing to relearn' a class just seems like a poor excuse to me. What are you playing the game for if not having fun, I at least find learning and mastering is much more interesting then doing the same thing as a routine for 5 months. A minor thing like relearning a few abilities or adapting your playstyle a little sounds like a fun challenge which is at least why I play games to begin with. If some want to use it as an excuse to quit that's their choice, but that's certainly not a reason for me to quit.

For introducing combo points to paladins it might work to augment some abilities, but I doubt they'll use it for healing as well. Inpredicable healing is not somthing I think they'll ever introduce. Adding a secondary effect based on combo points might be an idea, 5% extra armor on the target per combo point or extra strength/agility perhaps. Requiring combo point to heal I don't think we'll be seeing. For tanking I would imagine using the points for replenishment of mana or offensive/defensive short term buffs. I don't quite see why it would make it broken or too hard or stupid... Look at the possibilities, not the limitations of new mechanics is all I can say.

While I'm at it, for the main topic I'm looking forward to not needing to spend bag slots on ammo, it's not a big deal as such, but it's a nice bonus. Glad to see it, will enjoy.

[Kiingeh]

So since ammo is removed all ranged are meant to be having the bonus DPS added to the weapons DPS, is this still the case?
If so im assuming a low level ranged weapon wont get the DPS from a high level ammo added to it. Anyone in beta able to give a bit of info on how its changed?

Did Thori'dal get changed at all?