Casual or Hardcore? What is it these days?

[Curumor]

I have 8 toons on Alterac Mountains, 7 Horde, 1 Ally, and 4 Ally alts on Maelstrom, so I can almost always find something to do.

You've got ally chars on TM?
What names? All my chars (that I play, at least) are on TM. ^^

@Zeilla: Throw in some heavy verbal abuse (think Onyxia guy x 10), a slightly twisted sense of humour and you've got my old TBC guild ^^
As for tacts and such, there might be some HC fights that require discipline and coordination, but for me that just a cheap cop out from Blizz.
Like doing Illidan without a lock and so on. Just an easy way to make the fight harder without limiting the fight itself to hardcore guilds.
I've yet to see a fight in WotLK that comes close to the coordination of Lady Vashj or Illidari Council though...
But in all fairness, I haven't done ICC yet, so I might be wrong

[VelkynKarma]

I'd consider myself casual. While I will jump into dungeons on occasion, I'm not desperate to gear up my characters ASAP with the Best Stuff Ever. Honestly some days I wonder why I even bother to gear Sil up with badge rewards, because I don't raid, so it's not like she NEEDS it. But it is a nice feeling of accomplishment. Mostly I just like to play around, do the quests, level alts, and generally have a fun time exploring the many places of the world.

I would consider a player 'hardcore' if they start setting up a part of their life schedule around some aspect of the game. When you start saying that you will meet 2-5 times a week at specific intervals to do endgame content (raiding or pvping or whatever), then to ME it's becoming a second job, and that's hardcore. Nothing against people who have lives like that, but it's too much for me XD When it becomes a job, it's not a game anymore, at least in my opinion.

I've only ever been in two (and a half) raids ever. The first was Karazhan, only about a month before Wrath came out. My friend belonged to a semi-hardcore raiding guild, and had invited me into it for the social aspects. They all decided to run Kara one night (mostly on their alts) and had an extra slot open, so they invited me along and wouldn't take no for an answer when I told them I probably wasn't good enough to be of any use XD. I did enjoy that, mostly because they were already friends and nice enough to give me tips on rotations and whatnot if they saw me having trouble. But, then again, even if it was an alt run they were still MASSIVELY overgeared for it, so it wasn't like they really needed the loot at all and they could plow right on through. The 'half' was a partial run of Kara for the bat pet during that one event just before Wrath came out The only WotLK raid I've done was Sarth, again because my friend invited me along. That was interesting too, but my teeth were chattering from nerves the entire time, even when the raid leader WAS remarkably patient (it was a pug and a lot of people hadn't done it before).

Honestly I think I'm not cut out for the raiding thing. The pressure of having to be the best and to remember all these strategies and such would drive me crazy. Plus if I was in a really regimented (and curse-slinging) guild like some of the ones you guys have talked about, my confidence would drop like woah. I don't do well with being yelled at, even if it is in jest, and tend to make more mistakes following it

~VelkynKarma

[karina]

I am in what some here would call a "Hardcore" guild due to the fact we have LK 25 HC on farm but as a guild we feel casual. We don't have to raid every week and we don't make it a rule, something comes up in real life yeah try to tell us but if you can't have fun while your out! We are all geared so that is natural for us on alts some will none stop run HC's all day but I myself don't. I started out as a Tank once that got 60 I started on my Hunter whom I played until ToTC where I made a Healer, which upon dinging 80 I just did 1 HC a day and she is now full ICC geared to.
I don't think there is such a thing as "Hardcore" anymore unless your a "no lifer" as in you do nothing but play World of Warcraft all day and all night. That is my idea of what Hardcore is. The rest are casuals to me who enjoy other things in life, yeah we all enjoy a game and sometimes we have those days where we do just sit on World of Warcraft all day :p

(Sorry if I went on to much)

[Saturo]

I'd put myself in the hardcore catagory.

We raid from 19-23 (7pm-11pm) Sunday through Thursday. Friday and Saturday are reserved for 10man raids and are optional, but I usually raid lead one of the 10man teams so don't really take a break from raiding.

For me, hardcore raiding isn't just about the scheduling, it's also about discipline and dedication.
I think ya'll are going to find my guild rules quite extreme, so here you go just for entertainment:
You must be there on time or you loose your raid spot. Missing too many raid start times leads to a demotion. Missing too many raids without posting on the guild forum leads to removal from the guild. You must read all boss tactics before raid starts. You must have flasks, pots, potions, and buff food that is optimal for your class (meaning if your MM and aren't hardcapped for arpen, you better have armpen food and not eat the fish feast). If you fail on the same thing several times during a raid you will be replaced (ie, standing in defiles on LK over and over and not learning to move). Fail too many times you will be gkicked (now that mostly goes for new people who aren't learning fights fast enough for our standards, so they do not pass their trial and are removed).

It's pretty military style, and for me it works great. I love how structured it is. When we start at 19, we are usually pulling trash by 19.05 and have ICC cleared (25hc) to Lich King by 22. We haven't gotten LK 25hc down yet, but we lost about 8 players over the summer due to various reasons. We finally got some good new trials and looks like we'll be starting up our pulls on him soon. I can't wait! It's about time we kill him!!! I have 2 relm first achieve kills both on 25 raids: Algalon and Anub and it was really hard to loose the LK hc relm first to another guild. I really do like being the best.

Now what people say about gear and that casuals can be hardcore raiders ect, I'm sorry I disagree completely. You can get nice tier set gear with grinding emblems, but you won't get the heroic set, and there is a huge difference between the heroic gear and the normal badge gear. On normal and on 10mans there are a lot of ICC bosses that are pugable or casual raiding guilds can get down, but 25hc end bosses, like Putri and Sindra, even Lady D, are quite hard. It's not about gear and smashing buttons on those, it's about tactics and positioning.

Now that ya'll probalby think I'm crazy I just want to say. YES, this is what is fun to me! I totally love it. My husband and I raid together and this is what we do when we're home from work. I don't like questing, so I don't have any alts, but I just love raiding and raiding seriously with others who want the miliatary style raid leading.

Pretty similar here. My schedule is a bit different, and I'd describe the guild as playfully serious rather than militaristic, but yeah. I don't find questing or levelling too fun, not farming and such either. Guild is currently breaking up tough, just the other day we lost our MT. D: None of the "veterans" (THose of us who started in BC or before) are too keen on Cata, some have quit already. Any raids we do now is with the second team, and most of them joined in TBC and WOTLK. We also have some casuals, people who are still gearing up, or friends to members who raid. Some of the trials count in there too. :P

[Wassa]

I used to be in a hardcore raiding guild back in BC. Five days a week, six hours a day of straight raiding, plus old raids on the weekends if you wanted those. While it was fun doing Black Temple and Sunwell the second those instances came out and being in a well known top rated guild, ugh, too much. NEVER AGAIN.

I am definitely casual now. Although people on our server say we are hardcore since we are the #1 guild on Wyrmrest Accord (although that isn't hard on WA. We have no competition. Other people on this forum from WA will agree), my guild is very casual. Currently we are 9/12 H ICC 25 from raiding only three days a week for three hours a day, and we sometimes clear all of ICC and RS in two days. I'm so casual now that I only log on WoW during raid times because I rather be doing other things with my time, but I'm an officer and I know I must be on to help organize and lead raids.

[Anansi]

I think ya'll are going to find my guild rules quite extreme, so here you go just for entertainment:
You must be there on time or you loose your raid spot. Missing too many raid start times leads to a demotion. Missing too many raids without posting on the guild forum leads to removal from the guild. You must read all boss tactics before raid starts. You must have flasks, pots, potions, and buff food that is optimal for your class (meaning if your MM and aren't hardcapped for arpen, you better have armpen food and not eat the fish feast). If you fail on the same thing several times during a raid you will be replaced (ie, standing in defiles on LK over and over and not learning to move). Fail too many times you will be gkicked (now that mostly goes for new people who aren't learning fights fast enough for our standards, so they do not pass their trial and are removed).

I think that sounds fairly normal for a raiding guild. If I ran a raid guild you can bet I'd have piles of rules, probably to excess. As a Marksman Hunter who is not ArPen capped, I think the enforcement of ArPen food is a bit short-sighted, as that extra 40 ArPen isn't going to do as much for the Hunter as the 40 Agi food (but Hunters should not be eating the Fish Feast regardless, they should eat their own Blackened Dragonfin or Hearty Rhino) unless they are just shy of the cap. Depends on where their ArPen sits really. From the sounds of your guild's content, yes, if your Marks Hunters are not hard capped they're probably pretty darned close so I can see the ArPen food rule but as a general rule, it could have some wiggle room. Ultimately though the Hunter should know what is best for their current gear level and spec, and if they don't then they need a good talking to or be shown the door.

Now what people say about gear and that casuals can be hardcore raiders ect, I'm sorry I disagree completely. You can get nice tier set gear with grinding emblems, but you won't get the heroic set, and there is a huge difference between the heroic gear and the normal badge gear.

This is why I put myself firmly in the casual camp. I don't give a rat's ass about the heroic content, I just can't get enthused about doing it. I'm not a gear chaser, I totally optimize, research and plan my gear lists, but I don't look at my 264s and think "if only I could get the 277s". That's not on my priority list as I don't fund it fun and thus I'm not a hardcore raider.

That said, I don't see what you've described as "military style", rather I think that's an attribution you've come to make as it makes you personally feel hardcore and "the best". Having strong tactics is just part and parcel of raiding HM content, it's not unique to any guild, but a necessity for downing the content. Of course doing HM 25 content needs more discipline and tactical organization than regular modes, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it militaristic. It is a video game after all, military regimens are no game, not by a long shot.

[kairii]

hmm this i can answer from both sides
lil kairii is just a casual alt who i mainly play during summer or any other holiday time she join guilds that raid but they dont make you come every week
now my priest ... who ive been on pre tbc ... shes in a hardcore guild as in you dont know the fights you will be kicked!

Raiding
- Raid invites go out between 19:30-20:00. If your not online between these times you will NOT be invited.
- You must be ready to raid by 19:30. That means not be in a group, be outside the Raid instance!
- Bring Flasks, Food, Potions and repair money, otherwise you will be removed.
- If you do not know a boss fight you will be removed from the Guild. There are enough videos out there and it is not hard to use Google. Your here to raid so learn the fights!

Harsh but fun but i dont enjoy that all the time =.= it is very hard work our raids are 20:00-00:00+ on a good know we can clear icc in one night but we normally stop before the LK anyways but it was pritty much a raid every night .... which is very boring for some
Wed-ICC 25 HC
Thurs-ICC 10 HC
Fri-Ulduar 25/10 achiv run
Sat-achiv run
Sun-achiv run
Mon-ICC 25 hc
Tues- ICC 10 hc

Sat and Sun were more for doing AQ and BT things like that or ToTC achivs
so i dunno what to label myself as ... maybe a slacker ;D since i dont like raiding but i dont like quests or farming ... i like pvp ... sometimes .... im not into getting the best items asap! i just im a "in the moment" kinda person my mood effects the way i play and wanna play ... if that makes any sence what so ever
our guild is still going strong even with teh bad news of Cata and the boredom of waiting for it ... i last leaver was back in TBC xD and we been going strong since ...

[Sonata]

Wow, nice to hear something from you hardcores out there, but it's more glad that you enjoy what you are doing.

But even if it's militaristic, can you tell the guild sometimes that you cannot be in this raid for personal reason or are there the same kind of system as in you sign into a raid? Would people kick you out of the guild if you are not working for your part?
Do most hardcore guilds use the recruiting system as in you file a application form on the forums or so on; do hardcore guilds look at GS or gear up newbie joiners who might be new to the ropes?

What about casual guilds, are their activities similar to achievement runs mostly because of no quaranteed for schedules and so on. People might also not know one another that well in casual guilds.
Even thought most casual guilds are between friends and family or even forum members like our very own Petopians is mostly a casual guild.

Also are most casuals actually lone wolfs who rather not be in a guild? Sometimes casuals don't have guilds and dare not step into one; what did it feel like to step into a guild the first time?

[kairii]

from hardcore background and being one of the 5 recruitment officers i do not at all look at a persons gearscore ... is means nothing ... you could of ninjaed that loot you might be a lucky roller it doesnt equal your skill which is required for raiding. some hardcore guilds have a age limit
as for skipping raids our rule is enjoy life over WoW just tell us asap so we aint left sitting full of worry about you. but since most people in my mains guild are british we kinda just text or call each other .... geez my GM lives 7 doors away from me xD
people think of hardcore they think no lifer never going out or having fun. sadly that isnt true my guild is seen as hardcore but we just mess about .... c'mon who else would pull a boss when just wearing a weapon and nothing else ... we do! ;D
from my exp with casual guilds they go off gearscore more :s

[Suicune]

Not 100% sure what type people would label me as. I hear the word 'casualcore' used here and there, I think that fits, at least for my guild. Casual as in my job makes it impossible to know if I can raid a certain night, but hardcore as in when I raid, I take it seriously, but aim to have fun as well. I also consider the other things I do in game... achievement/mount/pet collecting, and rare pet taming... I would say anyone who logs on everyday (or pretty much everyday), for more than 2 hours in a clip regularly, doing anything in game, is leaning towards the hardcore player. I have a guildie who is a hardcore alt leveler lol.

Right now my guild is rebuilding back up after my and my raid leader's faction swap. I run a dual faction guild on Azuremyst, aimed for adult casual players who can't commit to set schedules for the most part. We were raiding pretty consistently Hordeside, Monday being our regular day for raiding, along with one, sometimes two other days later in the week.

I started playing in BC (restrained from trying WoW prior, heard addicting horror stories, so I avoided it, knowing how I get with RPGs and such lol), and decided, bah, I'm making my own guild! And so, I did. Gathered up some friends who started playing when I did, and others server xferred to be with me. At first, most of us were still learning the game- this was my first MMO, and my at-the-time fiance and I wouldn't run instances really until we were able to duo them haha. We out-leveled the other guildies, but soon our little guild grew to a decent size, though a lot of us played at different times of the day. Mostly we all did our own thing, defending the towns, PvPing in BGs and such.

My current raid leader was once my boss haha. I got him back into WoW after he started to get the itch to play again after hearing me go on about this and that. He had been on a break from the game, playing others like EQ, until one day he texts me asking for my character's name, giving me a referral, and rolling a shiny new Tauren tank for the guild. With his knowledge of MMO stuff, and the aspirations of the guildies, we decided that I should start to actively recruit for the guild, and try to start finding like-minded adults who wanted to see if it were possible to see some end-game content, while still having the casual aspect for those not wanting to raid. It went well. The type of guild I run is sought out by a lot of adults who have jobs with those floating schedules that cannot be certain that they will be off a certain day of a week on a regular basis.

Our first raid was to Naxx, and we were shocked at how well we did. I know it was easy for a raid, but for a 10 man group consisting of quite a few people who never stepped foot into a raid prior- we were very proud. Been raiding ever since, and let me tell you- the hardest thing to deal with is the 'end of expansion blues'. People get bored and burned out, and stop playing, which means you need to find a replacement for them. When this starts happening, it becomes harder to fills raids with the right comp., and also means raids either get canceled or we don't get as far.

I personally love when we can progress well as a casual guild, I'm very proud when we down something before it gets nerfed or the next tier comes out, and we've done hard modes that other casual guilds sometimes struggle with, if they even complete them. We were pretty much a 10 man strict guild up until recently. I do very much want my rusted Proto :<
Very hard to find people who care enough to run Ulduar to do the hms there >_<

These days I think the line between casual and hardcore is blurred, as there are so many aspects to the game and so many different ways to play it, that it is hard to see things in black and white.

[Zeilla8]

I think that sounds fairly normal for a raiding guild. If I ran a raid guild you can bet I'd have piles of rules, probably to excess. As a Marksman Hunter who is not ArPen capped, I think the enforcement of ArPen food is a bit short-sighted, as that extra 40 ArPen isn't going to do as much for the Hunter as the 40 Agi food (but Hunters should not be eating the Fish Feast regardless, they should eat their own Blackened Dragonfin or Hearty Rhino) unless they are just shy of the cap. Depends on where their ArPen sits really. From the sounds of your guild's content, yes, if your Marks Hunters are not hard capped they're probably pretty darned close so I can see the ArPen food rule but as a general rule, it could have some wiggle room. Ultimately though the Hunter should know what is best for their current gear level and spec, and if they don't then they need a good talking to or be shown the door.

Now what people say about gear and that casuals can be hardcore raiders ect, I'm sorry I disagree completely. You can get nice tier set gear with grinding emblems, but you won't get the heroic set, and there is a huge difference between the heroic gear and the normal badge gear.

This is why I put myself firmly in the casual camp. I don't give a rat's ass about the heroic content, I just can't get enthused about doing it. I'm not a gear chaser, I totally optimize, research and plan my gear lists, but I don't look at my 264s and think "if only I could get the 277s". That's not on my priority list as I don't fund it fun and thus I'm not a hardcore raider.

That said, I don't see what you've described as "military style", rather I think that's an attribution you've come to make as it makes you personally feel hardcore and "the best". Having strong tactics is just part and parcel of raiding HM content, it's not unique to any guild, but a necessity for downing the content. Of course doing HM 25 content needs more discipline and tactical organization than regular modes, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it militaristic. It is a video game after all, military regimens are no game, not by a long shot.

I used the armpen food as an example. It actually took me a LONG time to reach the soft cap before I started gemming armpen and eating the 40 armpen food buff. I hit the hard cap now and I eat the 40 agility food. It was just as an example as you need to eat the food that is the best buff for your class/spec, not that hunters HAVE to eat armpen food.

I dissagree with you with why you think I call it militaristic. With how you put it that would mean that I think having attriubutes similar to the military is the BEST, and I don't feel that way. I call it militaristic during raids because we have a very strict hierarchy. Raid leaders and officers are the only ones alloud to talk (during raids). If someone else starts talking (which new people ofc do) they are told to shut it. There's no argueing, when a descission is made (even if it's a bad one lol) you follow it. If an officer asks you to do something, you do it. If a wipe is called and there's still a combat rez available and the fight looks salvageable, it doesn't matter, you wipe cuz it was called. Because of the hierarchy and that we MUST follow orders, is why I call it militaristic.

[Zeilla8]

Wow, nice to hear something from you hardcores out there, but it's more glad that you enjoy what you are doing.

But even if it's militaristic, can you tell the guild sometimes that you cannot be in this raid for personal reason or are there the same kind of system as in you sign into a raid? Would people kick you out of the guild if you are not working for your part?
Do most hardcore guilds use the recruiting system as in you file a application form on the forums or so on; do hardcore guilds look at GS or gear up newbie joiners who might be new to the ropes?

What about casual guilds, are their activities similar to achievement runs mostly because of no quaranteed for schedules and so on. People might also not know one another that well in casual guilds.
Even thought most casual guilds are between friends and family or even forum members like our very own Petopians is mostly a casual guild.

Also are most casuals actually lone wolfs who rather not be in a guild? Sometimes casuals don't have guilds and dare not step into one; what did it feel like to step into a guild the first time?

1. You can sit out for personal reasons, but it is expected that you post on the forum in the 'afk' section to let us know when you will be missing raids.
(or if you suddenly feel sick and can't continue the raid one nigh ofc you can just tell the raid leader and you will be replaced.)
2. If you just stopped showing up for say a week or two and didn't tell anyone that you were going away, yes you would be gkicked.
3.We have a recruiting system and a forum on our website where you can file an application. We will look at your armory, but your application is more important. A persons skill is much more valuable than loot and it is very easy to gear up a good player, so we will make exceptions and take low geared player if their personal skills and attitude look like they match what the guild needs.

Can't answer you on the casual questions

[Skarm]

I consider myself a casual, for the following reason; I don't live, eat, drink, breath, and defecate WOW. I love the game, don't get me wrong, but I enjoy it too. I love nothing better then to go out for 2 or 3 hours and farm mats for sale in the AH. If I feel like taking one of my toons out raiding, I have one for that, but that's not the only reason I play the game, raiding that is. I love my spirit beasts, even though there are those who are "Hardcore" who say that SB's are worthless in raids and dungeons. I am casual in that I play the game for my own enjoyment, and not according to some number crunching yahoo who is going to look down on my GS because it's .007 percent below "optimum". I have a problem with those who want to "yuck my yum" and decide one way is the only way. I payed the money for this game and subscription and will play how I want to play, and you can play how you want to. Thus endeth the lecture.

[Anansi]

I dissagree with you with why you think I call it militaristic. With how you put it that would mean that I think having attriubutes similar to the military is the BEST, and I don't feel that way. I call it militaristic during raids because we have a very strict hierarchy. Raid leaders and officers are the only ones alloud to talk (during raids). If someone else starts talking (which new people ofc do) they are told to shut it. There's no argueing, when a descission is made (even if it's a bad one lol) you follow it. If an officer asks you to do something, you do it. If a wipe is called and there's still a combat rez available and the fight looks salvageable, it doesn't matter, you wipe cuz it was called. Because of the hierarchy and that we MUST follow orders, is why I call it militaristic.

To me that just sounds like a baseline sensible raid environment, nothing extreme at all.

[Zeilla8]

I only played WoW for about 6 months before I got into this guild and it was a huge jump for me compared to the other raiding style I was used to. I also haven't played any other games besides WoW, much less raided. Perhaps this is the standard raid environment then. I guess it all depends on what you've seen before. When I tell my irl friends about my raiding structure they are surprised it is so strict, but then again most of my friends aren't gamers (now that is not meant to be insulting or anything negative).

I don't think playing casual or hardcore makes you better than the other. The point is as long as we're having fun and I am definitely having a blast with the game. Otherwise I wouldn't play. (that's not directed at you Anasi, just a statement)

[VelkynKarma]

I only played WoW for about 6 months before I got into this guild and it was a huge jump for me compared to the other raiding style I was used to. I also haven't played any other games besides WoW, much less raided. Perhaps this is the standard raid environment then. I guess it all depends on what you've seen before. When I tell my irl friends about my raiding structure they are surprised it is so strict, but then again most of my friends aren't gamers (now that is not meant to be insulting or anything negative).

No, I know what you mean. I *AM* a gamer and yet hearing some of my raiding friend's stories about her guild makes me want to curl up into a ball and hide in a corner. She seems to love the atmosphere, even if it can get loud and very shouty sometimes, but I just point-blank couldn't take a situation like that. Too much pressure for me.

Also are most casuals actually lone wolfs who rather not be in a guild? Sometimes casuals don't have guilds and dare not step into one; what did it feel like to step into a guild the first time?

This is a REALLY good point. Until recently I used to be pretty much a loner. I had one or two friends who got me into the game to begin with, but I was content to play by myself for the most part. It wasn't bad or anything, and I would usually just avoid any dungeon or group quests that came my way, and level the old-fashioned questing way.

One of these friends invited me to her casual raiding guild (they were hardcore about raids, but raiding wasn't the only thing they did). It was nice, because it was a group, and sometimes I could talk to them. At the same time, it was a bit awkward, because I was clearly getting pulled into a very big group setting where everyone already knew each other. I remember my friend giving me the intro-lecutures. "That's X, but he's also Y, Z, A, B, and F, he raids on all those alts. That's C, he's also...." Etc etc. It was just so hard to keep track of anything, and because I didn't do a lot of raiding content, there wasn't a hella lot I could do to relate to them. That guild eventually splintered as the more hardcore raiders joined a hardcore raiding guild, and when the few people I DID know jumped over there, I jumped ship.

Petopians is the second guild I've been in, but I REALLY feel like I click with everyone in it Everyone is mostly casual and fun, we all understand each other, and having been there from the beginning (lol, almost literally, I was the first forumite to join XD) I know everybody. There's no pressure to BE THE BEST and BE ON TIME AT THIS POINT AT THIS DAY TO GET THIS CONTENT DONE, and everybody is super helpful. Hell, I think the reason I've been able to level so fast, even without heirlooms, is just because I have all these tips and tricks for classes I'd never been able to get into before

~VelkynKarma

[Curumor]

I only played WoW for about 6 months before I got into this guild and it was a huge jump for me compared to the other raiding style I was used to. I also haven't played any other games besides WoW, much less raided. Perhaps this is the standard raid environment then. I guess it all depends on what you've seen before.

Not very standard on my server
Examples of what we (as a hardcore raid guild) did during raids:

-insulted rival guilds in the same instances over general (the race for first Illidan kill was pretty competitive and verbal at times )
-made it a point to actively try and kill anyone who got mindcontrolled.
-laughed at anyone who died or messed up
-talked about all kinds of unrelated crap in Vent and /raid

As for the hunter group, consisting of 3 hunters (me, Lell and Darkstarr), our totem bag (Halby) and a feral druid, we went a little bit further...

-Used Scare Beast to send BT wolves into other packs, wiping the raid. Then let priests and locks take the blame.
-Used MD on random targets, just for giggles. Sometimes eahcother pets, sometimes other dps and one time on a pala that told the healers not to heal us (our shammy told us about it).
- and otherwise severely tested our RL's patience with all kinds of gags, tricks and foolery.

Was great fun! The worst thing that could happen during a raid was that we got bored.
But we still progressed really fast and were one of the top guilds. Mostly because we'd get serious once there was a boss fight and kept spirits up when not. ^^
We had pretty strict rules, but the attitude was pretty chilled generally.
Then again, Baffo was definitely not for everyone!

[Wassa]

Questions from Sonata.

But even if it's militaristic, can you tell the guild sometimes that you cannot be in this raid for personal reason or are there the same kind of system as in you sign into a raid? Would people kick you out of the guild if you are not working for your part?
Both my old hardcore guild and current guild have forums for posting if you will be late or miss a raid. My old hardcore guild would kick you out if you went below 85% attendance (if I remember correctly) and they were very strict on this. My current guild wants all raiders to have 75% attendance or we demote you to casual. We rarely kick for missing raids. Kicking is for people that start drama and have attitude problems.

Also, my hardcore guild didn't feel militaristic, but it did feel like more of a job than the full time job I had at the same time. Just without the being paid part.

Do most hardcore guilds use the recruiting system as in you file a application form on the forums or so on; do hardcore guilds look at GS or gear up newbie joiners who might be new to the ropes?
Almost every raiding guild I've been in, hardcore or casual, makes you fill out an application. As a recruitment officer I don't look at gearscore. Hell, I don't even know my own gearscore and like to log out in RP gear often. I look more for correct specs, gems, enchants and raiding experience. The level of gear helps but we only decline people on gear alone if they are in blues and want to be carried into H ICC 25 for gear.

What about casual guilds, are their activities similar to achievement runs mostly because of no quaranteed for schedules and so on. People might also not know one another that well in casual guilds.
Super casual guilds might have activities, especially an RP guild. If everyone is 80 they might get together for heroics or 10 man raid runs. Leveling guilds probably won't have any planned activities and people will come in and out of that kind of guild so fast you won't get to know many of the members.

Also are most casuals actually lone wolfs who rather not be in a guild? Sometimes casuals don't have guilds and dare not step into one; what did it feel like to step into a guild the first time?
This is funny because all my alts are guildless or in a guild by themself that I made. I only feel like I HAVE to be in a guild if I want to raid. Everything else I don't need a guild for.

Probably shouldn't put this here but since this is a hunter forum and we are talking about raiding, my guild is currently looking for another hunter, so if you think you have what it takes to raid H ICC 25 you can put an application at our website at http://instinctwowguild.com. A love for tallstriders is a plus. =P

[Bulletdance]

I've always been more casual. For about five years I've been a boomkin/tree. And I have my 80 hunter on the side so ranges is really all I know,but lately I've been tanking on my baby pally tank. I'll run a few instances a day on him and that is all I do in wow now. Its odd. As a healer or dps I've always had a great respect and sort of reverence for tanks. I never thought I'd try one that job seems hard,but its really fun sticking my face in things and seeing if it kills me, guiding groups and trying to keep everyone up. I'm sure I'm not that great at it yet,but who knows I might take this guy all the way to 80.

[Saturo]

Probably shouldn't put this here but since this is a hunter forum and we are talking about raiding, my guild is currently looking for another hunter, so if you think you have what it takes to raid H ICC 25 you can put an application at our website at http://instinctwowguild.com. A love for tallstriders is a plus. =P

*Is disqualified.*

Yes, most guilds would require you to fill out an application. As the hunter classleader I'm responsible for not only any class related questions, but also for reviewing hunter applications. And yes, I will take a look at your gear. It won't be a major part of your sucess tough, but looking for any incorrect stats, or dumb gemming and such helps a bit.