Analysis of new Pet Abilities

[Rikaku]

what about Spirit Beast?

* Spirit Mend (Spirit Beast - E) - The Spirit Beast heals the currently friendly target for {1237.75+((RAP*0.35)*0.5)} plus an additional {475.97+((RAP*0.35)*0.335)} over 10 sec. / 25 yd range, Instant, 40 sec cooldown

It's unknown whether or not they will keep Spirit Strike at all. Someone in the beta that can access the latest build needs to confirm.

Spirit Strike is gone. There's even a blue confirmation here that it is not a bug: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 2&sid=2000

Ok let me be the first to admit that 1) I understand it's beta and 2) Things can change. However that said, I absolutely hate the new SB ability. Spirit Mend just doesn't cut it for me personally. I'm glad pets got buffs/debuffs, the idea seems great. Does it get hunters to use more pets? Yes? Then it did its job. However, I can dislike one part respectfully, right? XD

most of the damage from pet abilities is being removed because to many people where being forced to use the same pets as everyone else for optimal damage.

See, here's the problem I have (with Spirit Mend) in regards to that idea by Blizzard. While a lot of people will be trying new pets, overall by the first raid time of Cataclysm, you're going to see the same 3-5 pets used by 75% of all hunters once again. Because really, I mean, compare the sexy new Corehound to Spirit Beasts.

Which will most people bring to a raid/dungeon: A pet who can bust out Heroism/Bloodlust and a second skill or a pet who can bring a second heal? While both have the scenarios that would be optimal, I'm willing to bet that Corehounds & Devilsaur will be the Wolf 2.0. XD

Now don't get me wrong. Before people start jumping on me. I'm not picking a fight/debate. I'm just stating my own opinions/ideas. I am PRO-the new ability system. Just not supportive of every single debuff/buff that the families got XD

Edit:
And if it's true that Exotics get 2 skills, then I will happily bring an SB around. Though I still feel like some pet families are a little lacking still. =x

[Kalliope]

Hrm, maybe it's due to succubi being pretty squishy otherwise. Unsure. Do they still have seduce too?

Spirit beasts only have the one ability right now, right? Not counting prowl? Methinks Blizzard is a little lost regarding cats/SBs and what to do with prowl. It's a cool/fun ability, but do they deserve it for free? Or is something else in the works? And I don't even know what they're doing with foxes; they're not exotic and they get to 'play' too... This system still has some kinks in it and it's a valid point that SBs in particular are lacking a second ability. I really don't count prowl...I probably should, but I don't.

[Rikaku]

I'm just hoping SB's don't get shafted again AKA the reason they had low dps is because they were rare-only family. Only this time, I'm hoping Blizz doesn't go "Ok you only get one ability cause these pets are rare-only". ._.

[Kalliope]

I'm just hoping SB's don't get shafted again AKA the reason they had low dps is because they were rare-only family. Only this time, I'm hoping Blizz doesn't go "Ok you only get one ability cause these pets are rare-only". ._.

Nah, cats haven't gotten a new ability either. It's either an oversight or something Blizzard hasn't worked out yet. Still, beta testers should be sure not to let Blizzard forget about them!

[Knobhead]

GC made an additional post with regards to the loss of Spirit Strike here; http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/26726036 ... e-removal/

Basically assuring us that the sky has not fallen.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Succubi have seduce, and their shadow lash now deals a lot more damage, and has about ten yard range on it.

[Gimlion]

As far as the DPS situation goes, even if you are slightly 'behind' the rest of the group, if you are buffing the raid, even a little, any damage you are supplying them through this buff can legitimately be calculated into your damage.

For example, lets say that you're doing around 10k dps, while everyone else is doing 12k dps. You seem to lacking behind, but lets say that your pet brought a 2% damage buff. (Not sure if that's in there, but I'm putting this in simple numbers and terms) That means that you personally are responsible for EVERYONE else being 2k dps ahead of you, so while it seems that you are well behind your teammates, in actuality, you brought along an extra 16k dps(if in a 10man) that they didn't have before you brought out your buffing pet. The only dangerous thing is that if this debuff/buff that you bring isn't enough to put you at or above what the rest of your dps is doing.

[Kalliope]

I guess the knockback is to help them survive some. But meh. Maybe it'll be nerfed too.

And it's good to see an official post from GC saying that these pets aren't there yet. Cause a few definitely aren't.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

As far as the DPS situation goes, even if you are slightly 'behind' the rest of the group, if you are buffing the raid, even a little, any damage you are supplying them through this buff can legitimately be calculated into your damage.

For example, lets say that you're doing around 10k dps, while everyone else is doing 12k dps. You seem to lacking behind, but lets say that your pet brought a 2% damage buff. (Not sure if that's in there, but I'm putting this in simple numbers and terms) That means that you personally are responsible for EVERYONE else being 2k dps ahead of you, so while it seems that you are well behind your teammates, in actuality, you brought along an extra 16k dps(if in a 10man) that they didn't have before you brought out your buffing pet. The only dangerous thing is that if this debuff/buff that you bring isn't enough to put you at or above what the rest of your dps is doing.

Except that this goes completely against the concept of "Bring the player, not the class." that they have been harping on. You aren't being brought because you can be competitive, you are being brought because you can supply whatever buff needs to be supplied. You are effectively a hole filler.

But damage isn't even the problem, I am trying to reassure people on that. It may be adjusted WAY downward later and become one, but for the moment neither pet nor hunter are hurting for dealing damage.

[Kalliope]

But damage isn't even the problem, I am trying to reassure people on that. It may be adjusted WAY downward later and become one, but for the moment neither pet nor hunter are hurting for dealing damage.

^
This.

The abilities are less....."shiny"....but they're super-powerful. We'll get to buff groups AND whip out wicked damage.

[Malazee]

Crocolisk
Blizzard typo. I refuse to believe the croc just became garbage. Tanks do not need to slow their enemies down. That's DPS' job.

Clearly.

Raptor
Is Raptor becoming Tenacity? Because that sounds like it would be as awesome as Sunder Armor. If not, then Blizzard didn't think that through properly, giving a DPS pet a tanking ability.

Didn't know rogues could tank...

[Feath3r]

Raptor
Is Raptor becoming Tenacity? Because that sounds like it would be as awesome as Sunder Armor. If not, then Blizzard didn't think that through properly, giving a DPS pet a tanking ability.

Didn't know rogues could tank...

I've seen several tank, not as well as the "big boys" obviously, but they can still do it. They just don't do it by getting smacked around.

Tanking is holding aggro from your teammates and I've seen some wonderful examples of almost every class tanking at some point. (You ever seen a mage tank? Poetry in motion.)

[Malazee]

Raptor
Is Raptor becoming Tenacity? Because that sounds like it would be as awesome as Sunder Armor. If not, then Blizzard didn't think that through properly, giving a DPS pet a tanking ability.

Didn't know rogues could tank...

I've seen several tank, not as well as the "big boys" obviously, but they can still do it. They just don't do it by getting smacked around.

Tanking is holding aggro from your teammates and I've seen some wonderful examples of almost every class tanking at some point. (You ever seen a mage tank? Poetry in motion.)

Of course. This is besides the point, however. Perhaps I should reword to "I didn't know rogues were considered a tanking class."

[Aylfric]

Except that this goes completely against the concept of "Bring the player, not the class." that they have been harping on. You aren't being brought because you can be competitive, you are being brought because you can supply whatever buff needs to be supplied. You are effectively a hole filler.

Potentially, maybe, but "bring the class" would be: ONLY shamans bring bloodlust/heroism, ONLY paladins bring kings, ONLY priests bring a stamina buff, so be sure to get one of every class, or, if you make a group out of your friends or out of who signs up for an evening, your group could be randomly more or less powerful than normal.

[Saturo]

Except that this goes completely against the concept of "Bring the player, not the class." that they have been harping on. You aren't being brought because you can be competitive, you are being brought because you can supply whatever buff needs to be supplied. You are effectively a hole filler.

Potentially, maybe, but "bring the class" would be: ONLY shamans bring bloodlust/heroism, ONLY paladins bring kings, ONLY priests bring a stamina buff, so be sure to get one of every class, or, if you make a group out of your friends or out of who signs up for an evening, your group could be randomly more or less powerful than normal.

The thing is, they're not giving us just one or two of those spells, they're giving us ALL of them. There's no reason not to bring a hunter, since they can provide every buff, if a little weaker. We are the ONLY class that gets weakened version of all those raidbuffs / debuffs, and it's just plain stupid, since we'll be filling up every single hole there is in a raids composition.

[Kalliope]

Except that this goes completely against the concept of "Bring the player, not the class." that they have been harping on. You aren't being brought because you can be competitive, you are being brought because you can supply whatever buff needs to be supplied. You are effectively a hole filler.

Potentially, maybe, but "bring the class" would be: ONLY shamans bring bloodlust/heroism, ONLY paladins bring kings, ONLY priests bring a stamina buff, so be sure to get one of every class, or, if you make a group out of your friends or out of who signs up for an evening, your group could be randomly more or less powerful than normal.

The thing is, they're not giving us just one or two of those spells, they're giving us ALL of them. There's no reason not to bring a hunter, since they can provide every buff, if a little weaker. We are the ONLY class that gets weakened version of all those raidbuffs / debuffs, and it's just plain stupid, since we'll be filling up every single hole there is in a raids composition.

We can't fill them all at once, though. This will definitely be a "your results may vary" situation.

[Turgus]

Alright, flat out, the people insulting the people who don't like the changes need to stop, and I mean right now. Even disapproving, knock it off. Not everyone is going to like what Blizzard does. Doesn't make them wrong, doesn't make you right.

~Begin Rant~
First off, I did not see any insulting of people going on in this thread, but instead I see a disagreement about specific ideas and statements.
You may say that this is "in-fact" insulting, but it couldn't be farther from it. None of the posts that I have read thus far have been anywhere near insulting. Not even close.

If you think that someone disagreeing with your point of view is insulting, and you can't stand for it, then I suggest that you step back from these forums.

The world is filled with people who have different opinions and beliefs about things, and just because I don't like vanilla icecream doesn't make the fact that my best friend does insulting to me. It is just a simple difference of opinion.

If you can't handle this, you need to really need to back off of the keyboard and talk to someone.

~End Rant~


I love the idea that We as Hunters have something else to offer the raid aside from Pure DPS.
Although we haven't done it in a while, we can CC quite effectively.
Again, since we haven't done it in a while, we can kite mobs that can't be CCed as well. (well, some of us can, others will have to learn how.)
Now we can bring something else, something ALL of the other classes bring to the table, BUFFS!!
And not just any old Buff but just about any buff you need! We are going to be the group/raid multi-tool. We can do it ALL!

Ever been in a 5-man without a stam buff when your tank really needs it?
~Not anymore! As of patch 4.00 it will be no problem! Hunter, you can summon your awesome Silithid or Beetle pet for some Leet Buffage!!

Tank isn't a Warrior but you still want that awesome armor debuff so you can top the DPS charts?
~No Problem! Hunters have a Pet just for that! Just call out your trusty raptor pet for some MAX DPS!

Seriously though, this FIRST pass of Hunter Pets has been awesome. Sure there are some kinks to work out, but Blizzard is working on it.
Sure, like anything there is change, some good, some bad. But so far, the VAST majority of the changes have been GOOD.

Hell, I have to give them some serious props for doing all that they have for the Hunter Class so far in Beta.


If you don't agree with my opinion, thats fine too. I actually love discussions and debates.
Its the only way you can really learn what a person is really like, and what views they actually entertain.
But you do have to be able to explain your reasoning with some logic.

[Ferledon]

Heres a lil list I put together seperating the pets by their Talent tree.
I would love to see pets talent trees redone to be like ours are. Such as Each pet has access to each tree. And Putting the first talent point in a tree locks you to that tree. Since our pets now have utilites for raids, this would REALLY open up our choices for a DPS pet over a Tank/Utility pet.


Not sure where beetles fit in, or what their ability is yet. I'll update my list as I find out more.
----------------------
-Cunning Pets-
----------------------
(Bats)
Stun
(Birds of Prey)
*TBA*
(Dragonhawks)
+8% Magic Dmg Taken
(Monkeys)
*TBA*
(Nether Rays)
*TBA*
(Ravagers)
+4% Dmg Taken
(Serpents)
Sunder Armor
(Spiders)
Root
(Sporebats)
Casting Speed Reduction (25%)
(Wind Serpents)
+8% Magic Dmg Taken
~Exotic~
(Chimaeras)
Snare (50%)
*TBA*
(Silithids)
Stamnina Buff
Root

----------------------
-Ferocity Pets-
----------------------
(Carrion Birds)
*TBA*
(Cats)
*TBA*
(Dogs)
+5% Crit
(Fox)
Attack Speed Reduction (20%)
(Hyenas)
+30% Bleed Dmg
(Moths)
Silence
(Raptors)
Sunder Armor
(Tallstriders)
Attack Speed Reduction (20%)
(Wasps)
Stun
(Wolves)
+5% Crit

~Exotic Pets~
(Core Hounds)
Casting Speed Reduction (25%)
Bloodlust
(Devilsaurs)
+5% Crit
Mortal Strike
(Spirit Beasts)
Healing
*TBA*

----------------------
-Tenacity Pets-
----------------------
(Bears)
Physical Dmg Reduction (10%)
(Boars)
+30% Bleed Dmg
(Crabs)
*TBA*
Crocalisks
50% Snare
(Gorillas)
*TBA*
(Scorpids)
Disarm
(Turtles)
*TBA*
(Warpstalkers)
50% Snare

~Exotic~
(Rhinos)
*TBA*
*TBA*
(Shale Spiders)
BoK
*TBA*
(Worms)
+4% Physical Dmg Taken
*TBA*

[Saturo]

Alright, flat out, the people insulting the people who don't like the changes need to stop, and I mean right now. Even disapproving, knock it off. Not everyone is going to like what Blizzard does. Doesn't make them wrong, doesn't make you right.

~Begin Rant~
First off, I did not see any insulting of people going on in this thread, but instead I see a disagreement about specific ideas and statements.
You may say that this is "in-fact" insulting, but it couldn't be farther from it. None of the posts that I have read thus far have been anywhere near insulting. Not even close.

If you think that someone disagreeing with your point of view is insulting, and you can't stand for it, then I suggest that you step back from these forums.

The world is filled with people who have different opinions and beliefs about things, and just because I don't like vanilla icecream doesn't make the fact that my best friend does insulting to me. It is just a simple difference of opinion.

If you can't handle this, you need to really need to back off of the keyboard and talk to someone.

~End Rant~

I suggest you be a bit more careful with your statements. The thread might not have been straight out namecalling, but it was quickly turning into it. And from some of the posters, it got pretty obvious that those of us who didn't like it are idiots. We have different reasons. Personally? I'm not too keen on having to keep my pet alive to provide that ZOMGAWSUM buff, because my pet might very well go down, quickly even. And giving all those buffs to us hunters? Not a very good idea either.
"We already have three hunters, but let's take one more so we can get the armordebuff too!"

[Turgus]

I suggest you be a bit more careful with your statements.

I reread each and every post in this thread, and my statement stands unaltered.
If you are offended by my post, then I am sorry that you feel that way.
But, when I find a discussion starting to spiral down to a point where people are not even allowed to call things as they see them, because of someone getting offended at a inoffensive statement, I can not just let the precedent stand unchallenged.
It happens all the time, but the problem is not in the person making the inoffensive statement but instead is on that individual that was offended.

The thread might not have been straight out namecalling, but it was quickly turning into it.

You may disagree with me and even think I am wrong, but every post I read was just discussion about people's opinion and not about the individual people at all.
Sure, a few were a bit terse, maybe even abrasive, but they were not offensive.

And from some of the posters, it got pretty obvious that those of us who didn't like it are idiots.

Nowhere did I read anyone actually calling anyone an idiot.
One might get an impression from a persons writing style or word usage that they "think" someone is, but that is just conjecture on the readers part and is by no means a correct interpretation.
(More than 80% of a statements meaning is in how it is said and non-verbal cues, posture, etc) all of that meaning is lost when someone types it on the computer.
That is why when I read a news article, or whatever, that gets me going, I reread it several times to get "my meaning" out of it.



With that aside, let me get to the stuff I ACTUALLY want to discuss.

Personally? I'm not too keen on having to keep my pet alive to provide that ZOMGAWSUM buff, because my pet might very well go down, quickly even.

This is a valid point, and would have loved to read a detailed post about this particular concern.

Taking your statement at face value, I think that all of the changes that pets have recently undergone address this concern.
All hunter pets have great avoidance when it comes to AOE from bosses (90% I think, correct me if I am wrong,) they now position themselves behind the enemy where they are generally supposed to be to avoid various mechanics. (dragon tail swipe being the exception that I know of)
As for specific mechanics that might target a pet with a damaging attack, I think that with the new scaling (hit points and avoidance) should help in those cases where the wolf (or whatever) gets hit.
I know in Heroic Zul'Frak I HAVE to pull my pet back when the boss whirlwinds, but then again all melee has to get out.
That is the only fight that I know of that I HAVE to pull my pet back.
In the other cases the pets avoidance does just fine, even with the other bosses that whirlwind. I may be missing a fight or two though, correct me if I am wrong.

And giving all those buffs to us hunters? Not a very good idea either.

On this I respectfully disagree.
I think that Hunters as they are not sought after in raids, why get a hunter when you can have a DPS warrior, a warlock, a mage or a rogue. They all have unique things that they can do for the Raid in addition to Raw DPS. They all (rogues being the exception) have buffs that they can give to the raid, and they can all (warriors being the exception) CC targets better than a hunter can. (Sap, Poly, Seduce, etc.)
These changes will allow a hunter to have real raid value aside from the Misdirect, which rogues can do just as well (if not better than hunter.)

If this is the wrong place for me to have an educated and mature discussion about WoW Hunters, their Pets, and other mechanics, then so be it.

I will take my leave.