[suggestion] Some hunter-changing ideas

[pop]

Here are some suggestions that I think can help hunter's pvp as well as distinguishing the 3 discipline play style better.


General


Focus related
Steady Shot/Cobra Shot
-Instead of restoring focus after cast, the focus would be generated during casting, hence if an enemy is los or die during casting your hunter would still have some focus restored instead of nothing at all.
-Each consecutive use of Steady Shot/Cobra Shot would increase focus restored by 50% to the maximum of 32 focus restored.
Eg first shot 9, second would restore 14, and third would restore 21, 32.


Traps
-Freezing and Frost trap now do not share any cooldown


Trap Launcher
-Trap Launcher would not be effected by the global cooldown
-Trap launcher now works like call pet; a button with slots that can be used to store traps.
-So it is possible to macro eg. /cast trap launcher 1 etc.



Misc Skills
Deterrence
-New glyph; Glyph of Deterrence. Major Glyph.
-Glyph of Deterrence.:~ While under the effect of deterrence the hunter will generate 5% of life every 1 second. This effect can only happen every 90 seconds.


Disengage
-Disengage cd is now 20 seconds and the jump range is increased by 25%.


Widow Venom
-Widow Venom is now removed


Serpent Sting
-Serpent Sting now applies -10% heal debuff.


Raptor Strike
-Besides Damage, Raptor Strikes now also slows the target for 50% for 10 seconds.
-New Major Glyph; Glyph Of The Falcon Punch. Major Glyph
-Glyph Of The Falcon Punch:~Your Raptor Strike now also knocks back your target for 8 Yards. This effect can only happen every 110 seconds.


Wing Clip
-Wing Clip has now been removed.




Aspects


Aspect Of The Hawk
-This aspect has been reworked. This aspect now Increases flare’s radius, and decreases disengage cd by 5 seconds and increases Disengages jump range by 3 yards. It also grants the same ap like it is now.


Aspect of The Fox
-now also grants ap, the same as AOTH apart from its current bonus.


Aspect of The Wild
-Now it is renamed into Aspect of The Bear.
-besides resistance to nature damage, now also grants ap bonus and also increases deterrence duration by 1 second and


Aspect of The Cheetah
-Now works like shaman’s ghost and druid’s travel form.
-A ghostly aura in the form of the cheetah would appear increasing speed by 40%.
-Any ranged attack or special attack cast will cancel the effect.
-no more daze.


Aspect of the Pack
-Revamped and now work as Crusader’s aura.




Pets


-Dismiss pet can now be cast while on the move.
New Glyph suggestion
-Glyph of Hightail, Minor glyph. Your dismiss pet is now instant when out of combat.

-Master’s Call now cannot be spell steal or dispelled.
-Revive pet’s cast time now reduced to 3 seconds.


New spell Suggestion;
Unbreakable Bond
-Purchasable level 40 skill that instantly revive your pet to its full health with 3 minutes cd.


Pet's stances
Defensive Stance
-reworked. Besides attacking any that attack you or the pet, Now ALSO enables for the pet to automatically attack any hostile players or mobs that are within 3 yards. Think guard/watch dog.
-3 yards won’t be so op.


Assist Stance
-Besides assisting your attack, it would also attack any that attack you too. Just like old defensive stance.


Pet skills
Some normal pet shares pet talent with exotic pets of the same family making them inferior version of the current exotic and would be less desireable. Eg. Spirit Beast vs cat; both ferocity pets both provide agi/str buff.


Exotic Pets
Rhino
-exotic skill: Horn Toss, now reduced cd to 110 secs and now cost only 10 focus
-special skill:Stampede now provides –armor debuff.


Spirit Beast
-new special skill Arcane strike to replace Roar of Courage
-Arcane Strike is a magical damage debuff, same as dragonhawk’s breath.


Devilsaur
-Revamped.
-Monstrous Bite is now a special skill that increases physical damage debuff
-Ferocious Roar is now an exotic spell that fears the target for 8 seconds.


Silithid
-Venom Web Spray is replaced by ‘Choke Hold’
-Choke Hold is the same as crab’s pin.


Normal Pets
Bleed is useless for 2 of the 3 Hunter's talent trees, so the bleed debuffs are now removed from the pets and the debuff would be implemented in the mm tree.


-Hyena’s Tendon Rip now slows instead of bleed debuff
-Boar’s Gore now disorients like monkey’s fling.
-Fox is now appropriately a cunning pet with a new special skill “Decoy/Mislead’ that causes the fox to substitute itself with a tree stump that has x%hp when attacked. The stump taunts while the fox jumps behind the target.

Talents


Beast Mastery
-Killing streak now resets Kill Command cd and make it cause 0 focus
-The Beast Within and Bestial Wrath is now combined into 1 point skill named Beastial Wrath.
-Current The Beast Within spot would be replaced with the current “Beast Mastery”.
-New 31st skill; Pack Master.
-Pack Master allows the hunter to control two pets at one time by enabling the hunter to summon and command an exotic pet and a normal pet at any time. Each pet however would only be 75% as effective. If the hunter has only 1 pet out at one time, the pet would instead be 150% as effective making it stronger. Think of Fury Warriors’ Titan Grip vs Single Minded Fury.
-Ferocious inspiration also now increases pet's claw, bite and smack damage by 10%.
-Master of beast now also affects Snake Trap.



Survival
-Into the wilderness now increased agility by 12.5% up from 10%.
-Black Arrow now also receives 20% of the weapons damage and would have a new effect. The target affected by Black Arrow would receive 20% additional damage when it moves and this effect can only effect every 5 seconds.
-Black Arrow now doesn’t share the same cd as any fire traps.
-Counter attack is now removed and replaced with Widow Venom. Widow Venom allows the hunter to shoot serpent sting and cobra strike at point blank and enables 2 serpent stings from the hunter to affect same target. The second serpent sting would only be 50% of its damage.


Marksmanship
-True Shot aura also now increases ranged attack range by 3 yards and your steady Steady Shot now also would cause the pet to apply +30% bleed damage debuff called ‘Pierced Flesh’ which same as ‘mangle’, which last for 30 seconds.
-New Mastery; Searing Arrow
-Searing Arrow is a proc that has a chance of adding x% fire damage to the hunter’s Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Chimera Shot, Cobra Shot, Steady Shot and also auto shot. So no more wild quiver breaking ccs.

[CrystalKitten]

While a lot of these would be cool, I seriously doubt they'd be implemented. There's almost ONLY buffs in here, and no debuffs. Some also seem to be things that USED to be in the game, but are now gone, or are just moving something from one to another.

I will say a few of these are ideas I've had though. For example, our aspect of the cheetah. NONE of the other 30-40% speed increase buffs for other races have a daze, so it kind of sucks that we do. Not that I want to use cheetah much in pvp.. mostly hawk, or more often, fox so I can keep up the focus regen while kiting and disengaging.

Also, despite not using macros TOO much (I do have a few key ones though, like my spirit heal or misdirect ones), I really like this idea, if only to get rid of the "Oops, I tried to throw my trap but there was a little lag so it landed at my feet instead" problem...

I DO like the idea of our pet/beast damage increasers affecting our snake trap. Sometimes that thing feels almost useless... Okay, maybe more than just sometimes.

As far as some pets being less valuable just cause they share some abilities, I don't really see any problem with that. I have spirit beasts, but I still use my kitty a lot. In fact, I have 2 that I don't think I would ever EVER get rid of, and I'll still use them, at least for solo, or sometimes even in dungeons, or pvp.. where ever I want really. If I want to max my pet's valuability, I have some of the pets to do so. But yeah.. There's many pets that have similar abilities. Nothing wrong with that, it lets people who really don't like one, or the other, get the one they want, and not feel like they're forced to run with something else.

I also don't see a problem with some pets being more geared towards some trees than others (like your mention of the bleed debuff). Afterall... what are exotic pets? heh.

I've also almost never have problems getting my kill command off when killing streak procs, so I don't see any need to change the talent. If ANYTHING, I would just add one or two seconds to the duration. No drastic changes though. As I usually have time to get off a few cobra shots before it fades if I need the focus.

Also, if it has been a bug that's been causing my defensive stat to act like it used to.. I'd like that changed... As it's almost pointless now. I mean.. if that's true, they pretty much just got rid of a stance, and then split our other one into 2 stances with an added target priority thing into assist.. I don't like it. I like to solo a lot, so, I want my pet to go in when I start attacking.. I also don't want him to wait for me to move to another target before he does. Hitting ctrl+1 isn't that much of a problem, but it could stop my pet from switching targets if necessary. Wouldn't be so bad if they built in some kind of aggro ai... where if the aggro on an incombat mob dropped below a certain threshold, it would switch targets to that.

Now, sure some of my comments don't relate to pvp.. HOWEVER, I hate when changes are made solely for pvp without considering the consequences of PvE. Your defensive stance, for example, would greatly affect PvE... I like to leave my pet on defensive when I'm doing "collect this" kinds of quests.. I run in.. creature tries to attack me.. pet steps in and starts attacking while I grab the item and then either help finish the fight, or, if I'm doing low level questing, the creature is already dead. With your proposed change, my pet would automatically attack anything aggressive it got in range of... Which I really don't like the idea of. It's not such a big deal with low level questing, but moderate to high level questing, or attempting to solo older dungeons/raids could cause big problems with unwanted aggro.

[pop]

3 yards isn't such a big range and you can always you assist or passive for better pet control. The current stances are very bad for pvp esp agaisnt stealthers. IMHO the pre 4.2 stances are better, but to give stealth a fighting chance, a 3 yard range hostility would be enough for them.

[CrystalKitten]

3 yards isn't such a big range and you can always you assist or passive for better pet control. The current stances are very bad for pvp esp agaisnt stealthers. IMHO the pre 4.2 stances are better, but to give stealth a fighting chance, a 3 yard range hostility would be enough for them.

Yes.. But the point is that while questing, I like it when my pet attacks stuff that attacks me while I'm doing other stuff. Without me having to interfere. The reason they got rid of aggressive stance in the first place, anyways, was because of pvp. They may not have come out and said it, but the big consensus on the forums is that it was removed at least partly because pets DO see through stealth, or have faster reaction times than people. So I wouldn't really see them adding it back in. Defensive, so that your pet will attack after you get hit is probably the closest you can get. I just wish they made it so that it was the SAME defensive it was before.

If they were going to do anything else with stances, I'd just want them reverted to what they were before. With all the problems there's been, and inconsistent behaviour in the stances, I really don't wanna put up with more potential problems if they start messing around with them again. But then.. the topic of stances has a thread all to it's own, so I'll leave that there, heh. I just don't want a stance that I like using in certain situations to be a potential aggro bomb in pve... And I'd like for such dramatic changes to STOP happening just because of some small pvp issue that could probably be fixed another way with some creative thinking (Ie... have pets auto-put-on-passive after leaving a BG... or just make sure that pet's couldn't see stealthed characters unless the player would be able to see them if they were in the same spot, etc) even if it is a bit more complicated code wise. Proposing changes STRICTLY off of pvp balance, while ignoring the PvE consequences is osmething I really hate.

[pop]

no pet does not see through stealth. Hunters has track hidden. It was track hidden and aggressive pet stance that made hunter great node defender. Does it make our pvp op? not at all. It just give us a fighting chance against stealthers. And stealth isn't invisble, there is a degree when we all can sometimes notice then too.

Having said the only rogues and ferals that complained are the ones who foolishly enough stealth and walk in front of the hunter instead of guess, what from behind.

[Cerele]

Ehh...

i would kill you if they did that to my silithid spirit beast and devilsaur,

aspect is uneeded change, only things i really liked were your idea for trap launcher and two pets, no offence but i didnt really like the other ones =/

[Darven]

I agree with Cerele. Ask for what I think about the rest fo your ideas...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZcKMtsK1Cs
Note** Im kakashi, your Zabuza

[Moore]

One thing I've always wanted:

Serpent Strikes ( I think) the BM talent that makes basic pet attacks auto crits. I want this to apply to KC D:

[pop]

Ehh...

i would kill you if they did that to my silithid spirit beast and devilsaur,

aspect is uneeded change, only things i really liked were your idea for trap launcher and two pets, no offence but i didnt really like the other ones =/

Your spirit beast would still retain its' meager healing, the silithid would still retain its' stam buff and the devilsaur's an improvement to the old one. trust me.

If you miss the old special skills, cats, spiders and wolves can still provide them

A lot of the suggestions are very pvp-centric, I can understand if you do not wish for them if you only pve instead of extensively doing end game arena and rbg.

[pop]

One thing I've always wanted:

Serpent Strikes ( I think) the BM talent that makes basic pet attacks auto crits. I want this to apply to KC D:

oh you mean cobra strike? wow that would be awesome. I like this idea

[Cerele]

Ehh...

i would kill you if they did that to my silithid spirit beast and devilsaur,

aspect is uneeded change, only things i really liked were your idea for trap launcher and two pets, no offence but i didnt really like the other ones =/

Your spirit beast would still retain its' meager healing, the silithid would still retain its' stam buff and the devilsaur's an improvement to the old one. trust me.

If you miss the old special skills, cats, spiders and wolves can still provide them

A lot of the suggestions are very pvp-centric, I can understand if you do not wish for them if you only pve instead of extensively doing end game arena and rbg.

no no i pvp a lot, its very fun, i just dont want to waste a silithid. the web is better, its ranged has a shorter cooldown and my pet can still attack. The spirit beast has a lovely buff i dont care much for the healing, besides we have 2 pets with 8% increase in magical damage, and if spiritbeasts converted it would be 3 vs the one pet with kitty roar. And no the devilsaur would not be an improvement, in pvp you can constantly waste the focus to keep widows vendom up or you can let your pet do it, and the 5% crit is a wonderful buff seeing how so many groups almost never have it. its not an improvement in either aspect of it, the fear would annoy the hell out of PvEr's dealing with newer hunters and the armor debuff, you have raptors and snakes we dont need another armor tear,

Edit also
Personally i can't stand wolves, i don't like the spiders and i dont like cats, plus if i went with them id miss out on the pets ive grown very fond of them and their abilities. my silithid, devilsaur and loque never leave my call pet =/

[pop]

like I said if you think fear is for pve. If you only do bg then you did not fit the description of end game arena and rbgs.

and no I'm suggesting armor tear for devilsaur, I'm suggesting physical debuff which has yet any ferocity pet can provide. Same as themagic debuff, no ferocoity pet yet to provide it.

and I'm not removing web as you can still get it if you were to use spiders and u can get the agi buff from cats.

[pop]

o don't worry you will get used to it as much as pvp hunter are getting used to teh stance changes.

If pet looks is what you only care for, then don't worry, pet skill changes won't change your current oet skin

[CrystalKitten]

That's not the point pop. Changes should NEVER be made without strongly considering the affect on PvE. Your comment of "Oh, well these changes are for pvp" in response who mention how it could seriously screw up PvE is showing you don't see the point. Blizzard doesn't have one game/class system for pvp, and one for pve. So if changes were made SOLELY base on pvp, it would seriously mess with us PvE'ers.

As to saying "just suck it up" to those saying they don't want their pets changed (not in so many words, but it's the feeling I'm getting...) that's not exactly a great thing to say to people you'd hope to get support from. There's simply no need for most of your changes. A lot of them are superfluous, and almost completely remaking the entire class... They, honestly, for the most part do not seem like well thought out ideas which have been thoughtfully developed with considering how it might affect players who don't pvp, who have gotten used to their pets (either via ability use, or sentimental bonding), or even non-hunters who pvp.

Also.. armor tear IS a physical debuff. By reducing the armor, you are increasing the physical damage that the target will be taking. Which is almost the exact same thing you're proposing, only in a different way. I mean, the armor tear can reduce armor by up to 20% (unless blizz changed it when they nerfed player sunder armors and petopia hasn't updated). I'm not sure what the math is, but if I'm right, that means that someone with 50% damage reduction from armor, would then have their damage reduction reduced by 10%, down to 40%. Effectively increasing physical damage by 10%, so even more than your proposed change (only difference is this would scale with how much armor, or initial damage reduction, the player has). To me, this just proves the point that these ideas are the product of a brainstorm with friends similar to: "oh oh! you know what would be cool?! ___________." "Yeah! And then we could have it so __________!". Which are REALLY fun on your own, but not when you apparently don't understand all the facts of how other things already work (our armor tear), or the cross class, and PvE vs. PvP balancing.

So all in all, a couple good ideas, but a LOT of ideas that really don't seem to be well thought or properly considered as to their affect to other players at all.

[Golden]

You have some really nice points there - in addition some that are unneeded, unfortunately.

I would really love to see some skills merged together, like the Serpent Sting/Widow Venom and Raptor Strike/Wing Clip you brought up here. That alone would do so much to get rid of the unneeded clutter of skills we never use. (Raptor Strike, I'm looking at you! Okay fine it can be useful if glyphed, but anywhere else? Not that I know of.)

As much as I would like having the ice traps on separate cooldowns, it seems a bit too much of a leap.. The Trap Launcher changes I can fully relate to, though. Far too many times I've had the infamous Trap Launcher fail happen at the worst possible moment.

As for Disengage, the range change probably wouldn't do much - it's already affected so heavily on the landscape and direction you use it at, it would end up being pretty much exactly the same anyway. The cooldown I would like to see lowered a bit though - perhaps to make it more alike to Blink's 15 seconds. Disengage requiring you to be in combat (which Blink does not), that would be the least that could be done.

ROFLed at Falcon Punch a little. ^^' That would be SO awesome, but unfortunately rather unneeded.

In my opinion a lot of the Aspect changes would make them far too complicated to use. Granting the AP bonus to all combat Aspects would probably prove to be a bit too OP. The Cheetah change I absolutely love however - give it a 2-second cast time one can spec to be instant and either take away our ability to attack during it or greatly reduce our damage if you must, but please give us a non-dazing speed increase. :(

Apart from this.. I have to say I disagree with the rest. Hunters seem to be doing rather well at the moment, and the changes I've already talked about might just be enough. Then again, this is just how I've experienced it in the past week, and I might be wrong.

There is just one addition I would like to make... Increasing Kill Command's range, as it's far too dependant on the pet AI's ability to be in range of its target right now.

[Royi]

There is just one addition I would like to make... Increasing Kill Command's range, as it's far too dependant on the pet AI's ability to be in range of its target right now.

Perhaps have the Kill Command instruck your Pet to LEAP/CHARGE/FLY straight in and attack (IE one big charge/attack combo)

I have my Kill Command Macro'd for the pet to go to the target (if not within range), but its still annoying.

[pop]

physical debuff is the one that add 4% to physical damage provided currently by ravager and worm

Armor tear is a stacking -armor debuff that is provided by raptor and serpent.

[Cerele]

o don't worry you will get used to it as much as pvp hunter are getting used to teh stance changes.

If pet looks is what you only care for, then don't worry, pet skill changes won't change your current oet skin

your missing my point,
name 1 hunter that is BM that does not own a devilsaur, and i can promise you more than half of them are full time pve'rs and with the fear would be a problem, and in pvp the fear would be almost useless short of geting the targeting off you, many classes have an immunity to it and would complain hunters are over powered.

[pop]

hence why I said that we nee choice. Making the exotic pet superior than normal pet limit bm choices. physical debuff actually help raids as it effects other classes as well. Having said a lot of other spec provide the current 5% crit anyway. and with these changes nothing is going to stop you from raiding with a devilsaur, because the skin would be still there.

Hunters are in no way op in end game rbgs and arena and fear can be easily trinket out or use your racial or spell which is also abundant.