For All You PvP Hunters Out There

[Zinagaro]

Wow, I'm really sad to see isn't catching hardly anyone's attention. - Edit

Let me start off by saying, I know I don't post much and I know a few of us have had some butting of heads. However in the spirit of bettering hunters everywhere I ask you to hear me out.
If you even just participate in TB once a week, do battlegrounds, arenas, anything that is against a Player Character as a Hunter. I want you to read this in its entirety.

http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=192950

This post explains everything about Hunter PvP that needs fixing and also goes into detail about all specs and even how the changes would affect PvE.
Please read it and give it your support.

[AdamSavage]

They really do need to remove that lol to close bs..I hate having a min range. You get into the melee range of a Hunter and they pretty much fold, there is only so much you can do to get away from them really. I also like to know why it needs to take 10 seconds to revive your pet. He had alot of good points, however he left that you don't need to use trap launcher to put your traps down. You just do it on the fly or put them right at your feet.

He is right about Kill command, I hate how the pet has to be pretty much kissing the target. The target takes one step as you hit it and your pet isn't in range anymore. It should be the same range as the pet attack range. I'm not sure if it is or not, either way it needs to be increased by a couple yards.

[Zinagaro]

The main purpose of this thread is to raise awareness of what exactly is troubling us as a community.
Feedback is welcome, hunters being the 2nd most played class in Warcraft there are a lot of people who need to know what is going on.

[Morven]

That's a very good writeup you linked there. The hunter class has a lot of issues in PVP; we are the squishiest class there, and we shouldn't be by logic.

[Zinagaro]

It almost seems like I'd have to say something insulting to get more views on this topic...

Shameless Bump in hopes people see it.

[Neverforever]

Lots of good points, the bump worked by the way.
I agree with a lot, especially the Kill Command thing. I've been a BM hunter since level 10. I'm not going to suddenly change my PvP spec because of this, but it certainly would be a great help if they fixed it.

[SylviaDragon]

ahhh i read this a few weeks agao. He covered a lot of my own gripes about my fav class and pointed out things that I have lived with for so long that i forgot how rediculous they are >_>
probably the bigest things for me are getting scilenced and suddenly i cant use KC or drop...traps? o.O Yet Arcane shot still works fine.... and i somehow use this shot despite not being a caster and not having mana >_> puts a funny pic on my head.

i always thought that scilence worked for casters beacuse they had to chant when casting in order to focus thier magic into a deadly spell/weapon so i guess KC can be justified seeing as you have to scream at your pet to rip that guys face off.... but I never relized that when my hunter stoops down to set a trap she isint just stooping... shes praying/chanting! o.O

[Litlemouse]

I saw this on the US official forums a couple of times, but each thread got deleted after awhile. The OP of the whole thing actually got banned from what I hear.

But yeah, besides that, it's definitely the best most in-depth guide to the problems we currently have. I hope someday they implement at least some of these changes. :/

[Morven]

I don't see why they would delete it -- can't handle criticism? It's not as if it's ranting.

Unless the threads got flamey, of course.

[Kalliope]

Unless the threads got flamey, of course.

More likely the case.

[Litlemouse]

Unless the threads got flamey, of course.

More likely the case.

Actually (or at least the one I read, can't say for the others) everyone was just kind of like "Yar I agree this is cool". Of course a few trolls popped in, but there was no big flame wars. O_o

[Durokh]

Pre-cata Kill Command was easy-to-use and great as it is. The actual version is just frustrating and pointless.

[AdamSavage]

I don't see why they would delete it -- can't handle criticism? It's not as if it's ranting.

Unless the threads got flamey, of course.

Possibly both reasons.

[banur]

Well, it's not bad but I don't agree with lots of the "problems":

"Plain and simple, Hunters are underperforming at RBG's and Arenas."
More like, other classes are overperforming - rShaman, Affli lock - and those arena comps don't play well with a hunter.

"Every pvp rogue has the talent for improved recuperate. This gives them 12 energy every time recuperate ticks. Every tick is 3 seconds, so for all intents and purposes, you can consider the benefit of this talent an additonal 4 energy per second, provided recuperate is active, and quite frankly, if it is not always on, the rogue is not playing right."

Where "Every pvp rogue" means rogues specced in the Subtlety tree, that's like saying every pvp hunter has silencing shot. Oh and of course if the rogue doesn't have recuperate running he's doing it wrong but when the hunter is unable to stay at range or kite around it's bad design.

"Clunky mechanics like trap launcher, and traps in general having to use two abilities to cc, making us unable to use one of our best abilities."
About what is he talking? I would like to discover this top ability that I can't use.

"Our CC also does not share the same mechanics are more common CC's, such as not breaking on our own dots, or a glyph that removes dots."
Yeah, lower the skill cap plx! I'm unable to watch for dots on my CC target! Yes, the polymorph and blind glyph are bad, I would rather see them removed instead of handing out more of them.

"Widow venom. We have the only MS in the game that has to be manually applied, and it costs us a GCD and focus. EVERY OTHER ms is automatic."
It only costs a GCD and focus if you use it and in that case you are on par with the rogue without recuperate. MS is crap and there is a reason why it was nerfed.

"We are the only pet class in the game that does not have a way to instantly revive out pet. Everyone else does. Instead, we have to do a full 10 second cast. I really don't even know how this is overlooked."
Same as the polymorph and blind glyphs. Don't make it easier if you fail to manage your pet.

"Hunter CC is one of the most difficult in the game to use."
What Scatter trap is difficult? It's instant and you can pull it off in two key taps. Yes, I agree that it's harder against good players as their partners will intervene and eat the trap instead of your desired target but they will LoS your casted CC in the same way.

"It requires us to be aware and think ahead, so we don't accidently dot a target with a bleed effect that we have no control over."
No control over the bleed effect? But you are playing the hunter don't you? And thinking ahead is bad, too?

"<Talents - Goes over BM and SV>"
That is the part where you talk about the speccs that don't have Imp recuperate but the hunter version, amirite?

"Careful aim. Why is this getting nerfed to 90%? The window in which we get to use it in PvP is small enough as it is."
PVE says hi.

"Piercing Shots. We have no control over when this happens and the bleed effect breaks our CC."
No control over RNG bleed: check
Dot breaks CC: check
CC on a dotted target: check

"Rapid Recuperation. This is like what rogues get from recuperate. Except ours is on a 3 minute cooldown, with a 15 second duration."
And ours give us +haste. And can be used twice in a row with readyness.

"Posthaste. When a mage blinks, their speed boost is over twice as good as ours. Also, theirs is in tier 2 of a talent tree, while ours is in tier 6."
Worst part?! WE BLINK BACKWARDS!

"<Glyphs>"
Bad glyphs are bad. Ok, I get that, but it's not hunter only.

"focus regeneration is too low. The trick is to increase it in PvP without increasing it in PvE,"
Except that those two fixes increase it in PVE, too, and bleeding edge PVE'ers will get them if they are better or easier to obtain and once the top players do it you are back in TBC and everyone is grinding honor for PVE.

"The Pillar Dilemma"
Well, you can call for your partners to aid you or switch targets to force the pillar humper into LoS.

"Secondly, Dalaran sewers needs to be modified. [...] It is unfair for this map to be so biased against one class in particular."
Yes, sewers need modifications but not only hunters moan about all those "gimmicks". Yay waterfall! Yay I dropped off the edge and have to run to one of two corners because there are only two stairs! etc.

"spellpen"
Yeah it's mostly useless because if resistance aura is used you negate it, but those one two gems and cloak enchant aren't going to break the game either. I haven't checked on the different hit tables but it's not helpful if they work in different ways.

"Hunters should not be stopped by silences because we are not casters."
Warriors can't thunderclap while silenced and I haven't met a casting warrior.

<poor abilities>
"Deterrence should be usable while stunned. Hunters are too easy to burst down."
Being able to use deterrence while stunned won't help you if the other team wants to burst you down. Oh and almost every other class is fairly easy to burst down without partners that peel.

"Damage reduction"
If everyone has some or the same percentage of damage reduction why not remove that or tone it down?

"Either allow hunters to somehow remove dots on a target via a glyph, or have piercing shots not break CC."
Oh! Use your brain kthx.

"Scaling and Kill Command"
Haven't looked into this and my BM specc is for exotics. :>

"Aspects"
If you combine them all into one, make it baseline and remove the aspect.

"Widow venom sucks. Plain and simple.
This effect needs to be baked into something so it goes on automatically like every other MS in the game."
Just don't use it, you don't need it.

"<long list with changes>"
Some of them could work but would have a huge PVE impact, so no to most of them.

Well those were the concerns I had while reading.

[Zinagaro]

This Top ability as you so put it being we have to waste a scatter shot and a trap cool down that shares one with our slow in order to properly cc someone for 8 seconds or have it fail completely because of a pvp trinket and get locked out of our slows and cc for another 30 seconds.

"Yeah, lower the skill cap plx! I'm unable to watch for dots on my CC target! Yes, the polymorph and blind glyph are bad, I would rather see them removed instead of handing out more of them." - Quite frankly I disagree, Marksmen have bleeds when they do damage if you are doing SV Right then you damn near never have NO Dots on your target. This quote here comes off as condescending and quite frankly unwanted in this thread. Keep your "Elitism" to yourself.

It only costs a GCD and focus if you use it and in that case you are on par with the rogue without recuperate. MS is crap and there is a reason why it was nerfed. - But that doesn't warrant hunters being the only class to not get an auto MS. On terms of Fairness at the very least.


Same as the polymorph and blind glyphs. Don't make it easier if you fail to manage your pet.
- Again your "elitism" isn't needed, however every other class does have this and our pets regardless of how we "Manage" them can be easily overtaken and killed.

What Scatter trap is difficult? It's instant and you can pull it off in two key taps. Yes, I agree that it's harder against good players as their partners will intervene and eat the trap instead of your desired target but they will LoS your casted CC in the same way.
- No, its the fact we have to use 2 CC's to equal any other classes given 1.

No control over the bleed effect? But you are playing the hunter don't you? And thinking ahead is bad, too?
- So basically don't play Marksmen or Don't have any crit at all. Yeah I like that theory there its perfect if you're a scrubtard.

That is the part where you talk about the speccs that don't have Imp recuperate but the hunter version, amirite?
- It's also the part where he mentions that it brings us up to a whooping 3 focus per sec increase. Still being under rogues by 6.

PVE says hi.
- PvE also says NERF

No control over RNG bleed: check
Dot breaks CC: check
CC on a dotted target: check
- Do you even play a hunter/ Do you even PvP ? Or are you being carried and don't need to CC. "oh shit I auto shotted the thing Im scatter shotting to trap oh fuck it now has a bleed on it." That has never happened to you I assume.

Worst part?! WE BLINK BACKWARDS!
- Blink backwards to run Forwards Makes sense right?

Bad glyphs are bad. Ok, I get that, but it's not hunter only.
- No it isn't but Most other classes have better alternatives than we do.

Well, you can call for your partners to aid you or switch targets to force the pillar humper into LoS.
- Its called stuns, slows, and CC's. We nor our partners are exempt from being locked down out of our range.

Yes, sewers need modifications but not only hunters moan about all those "gimmicks". Yay waterfall! Yay I dropped off the edge and have to run to one of two corners because there are only two stairs! etc.
- Again, Its much MUCH more of a pain to Hunters.

Yeah it's mostly useless because if resistance aura is used you negate it, but those one two gems and cloak enchant aren't going to break the game either. I haven't checked on the different hit tables but it's not helpful if they work in different ways.
- Refer to Min -Maxing and How it affects your DPS.

Warriors can't thunderclap while silenced and I haven't met a casting warrior.
- In that regard I agree warriors shouldn't be affected by silence either.

Being able to use deterrence while stunned won't help you if the other team wants to burst you down. Oh and almost every other class is fairly easy to burst down without partners that peel.
- Yes it would, Most classes have 5-8 seconds stuns which = death, 5 seconds of immunity gives you time to range so you aren't just a free hk.

If everyone has some or the same percentage of damage reduction why not remove that or tone it down?
- Is it easier to take cake away from 7 students so nobody has cake or just give cake to that one kid that doesn't have it so everyone has cake?

Oh! Use your brain kthx.
- "Elitism" Get the hell out. You're missing the main point of that sentence and addressing one you keep stating over and over about RNG.

Haven't looked into this and my BM specc is for exotics. :>
- I really don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

If you combine them all into one, make it baseline and remove the aspect.
- Stop trollin'

Just don't use it, you don't need it.
- Then take it away from every other class too.

Some of them could work but would have a huge PVE impact, so no to most of them.
- But those would be better than being the gimp we are today.

Some of this is Your post and Some is My Responses. I haven't sorted them out as to force you to read them all.