Foxes (aka Vulpes vulpes) just a few facts

[zedxrgal]

As a former vet tech specializing in exotics I had encounters with wildlife. I wanted to give several facts about foxes to help, if anything, to shed some light on these amazing little canines.
Foxes are solitary and if you see more then one it's usually a female with her kits or breeding season which is short lived but they almost always hunt alone and never share a meal.
Foxes are omnivores and not the full carnivores as most think. They especially love fruits. Most of their meat prey is made up of rodents. These little animals can eat 1 to 2 lbs of meat per day. That is a lot of rodents. Yes they've been known to attack chicken coups and fresh born lambs but this is rare and seemingly when the animal is really desperate for food. VERY very rarely they've been know to come up to a porch to eat left over pet food or garbage that a human has left out.
Foxes are extremely shy. A fox that isn't shy is usually diseased or very old and not able to hunt. Most will not attack prey much larger then themselves. They're a fearful little animal and at the first sign of retaliation most larger prey is let go. They usually live near humans and the humans do not even know it.

Around here healthy foxes have yet to be proven to be pet killers. I'm not saying it wouldn't or hasn't happened just the vets and wildlife rehabilitation I know have yet to have a confirmed pet killing by a fox. The pet killers here are coyotes and mountain lions. I lived on a ranch then lived on 10 acres and both times fox were not far. I did not lose a single animal to foxes and believe me they had opportunity between the chickens, ducks, pygmy goats, sheep etc living on there. Coyotes on the other had I would hear yipping in the night as the pack would get ready for a hunt. Those I lost livestock to. Neighbors said the same thing. Same with the local mountain lions.

I firmly believe that these little canines get a vermin bad rap when it's more then likely not them doing pet killings, raiding garbage cans etc. Humans should yes be mindful of their pets just simply that there's a lot out that can hurt them. Foxes make for amazing rodent control and most farmers (at least out here) keep them around simply because of that fact. Shame in some states foxes were hunted to extinction or almost extinct in other states because of their pelts.

I have nothing but empathy for the loss of a pet. But please don't be so quick to judge when it's not known for sure why the death occurred in the first place.

[Teigan]

Yes. Thank you!

[Firefrost]

They're evil pests, who should all be killed. There's another.

I have had a few pets killed by my neighbor's dogs, but for the most part, I KNOW foxes have done it.

[Dewclaw]

Very well written OP. Thumbs up!

[Dewclaw]

They're evil pests, who should all be killed. There's another.

I have had a few pets killed by my neighbor's dogs, but for the most part, I KNOW foxes have done it.

It might help us understand your point of view if you provided details. You've offered no evidence to condemn these foxes and all you've really exhibited is a sort of blanket bias against them; blind hate without explaining what's really happened, why so many pets have been killed (what measures did you take to protect them, how were they circumvented, etc.) I know if something was killing my pets, I'd immediately take measures to protect them.

[Saturo]

They're evil pests, who should all be killed. There's another.

I have had a few pets killed by my neighbor's dogs, but for the most part, I KNOW foxes have done it.

As Ryai said, it's actually your responsibility to keep your pets safe. Besides, if you know that the foxes are such a big problem, why do younkeep getting pets? I know I wouldn't if the pets would just get brutally killed.

I don't like foxes either, but at least I keep track of my pets. The same can obviously not be said about you.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

They're evil pests, who should all be killed. There's another.

I have had a few pets killed by my neighbor's dogs, but for the most part, I KNOW foxes have done it.

That has to be about the most closed minded and out right hateful statement I have heard in a while. Unless the foxes are just completely different where you are from, it is also wrong. Do you have a lot of overly small pet's? Are these pet's outside during the night? Are you not at home a lot?

I have lived ((And still live part time)) in the mountains of NC, way back in the middle of no where. I have spent many, many hours roaming the woods, and the most rare animal I have come across so far has been the fox. I've run into bears, mountain lions, critters by the cart load, snakes, and probably a few animals whose name I may have forgotten. I have seen TWO foxes in twenty two years of roaming. Two. Skittish is an understatement, the first sign of any sort of movement they bolt, and if there is any sort possibility of a human moving around in an area, or even a mid to larger sized animal, they'll call it quits.

Now, on the off chance that you some how have foxes that are actually kind of bold, why should you hate the entire species? And commit genocide? If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were just trying to piss off the people who were so excited about being able to possibly tame foxes. I may get pissed when a coyote manages to nab one of our cats, but I'd never kill the entire species, that's just wrong.

It's like snakes. Snakes tend to get a bad wrap for a couple of reasons, but they are generally not aggressive creatures. Yet most people hate and loathe them all with a passion. Even the non-poisonous ones. It's really kind of stupid when you think about it.

[Ryai]

They're evil pests, who should all be killed. There's another.

I have had a few pets killed by my neighbor's dogs, but for the most part, I KNOW foxes have done it.

Alright then if you know your neighbor's dogs have killed your pets; why are you claiming it's still foxes? Obviously the first culprit is the neighbor's dogs. And if you know they are so blood thirsty, why have you not done anything to prosecute them? Or safeguard your pets? I'm sorry but it sounds like you want to be in your little box of hate.


Let me give you a slice of my life; way back when, several years ago. My dad was out in the yard. Heidi was with him; what my dad never said while my mom was alive or around to hear it so she wouldn't get upset. Is the fact that the snake hadn't been minding it's own buisness and Heidi went for it. Evidently this giant, GIANT rattle snake, was going for my father.

Heidi of course, homed in and intervined, taking the bite meant for my father. The bite, thankfully was a dry bite, the only thing that saved my dumb dogs life. The bite itself was so large between the fangs, the vet himself said it was the largest snake bite he had ever seen.

Now. I nearly lost my dog to a rattle snake.

Do I hate all rattlers? No. Do I know they can be piss and vinager with spitfire incarnate? Yes. Do I want to kill the snake that almost took the life of my dog? Hell yes, BUT ONLY that snake.

So I'm sorry but you are stuck in a box of biased belligerence about creatures that are trying to survive. I have no problems if you just hated the creatures- but to hate foxes so much even when you yourself admit to outside forces also slaughtering your pets? So do you want to kill all dogs too? Kill all neighbors? I'm sorry but you're just making an excuse, and I don't really want to make Mania whap me with a post again so I'll just stop here but.


You need to accept the fact that taking care of pets is your responsibility. If you know their are dangers, don't scream you want them dead; take precautions. Keep your pets indoors. Set up safety runs. Traps. Call officials. Etc.

Or just do the smart thing and don't but more pets.

Edit:

Also how do you know it's foxes doing it. Do you have proof? Do you have pictures? Have you seen the foxes do it? Have you not asked yourself that the foxes could be rabid? Another danger to yourself and your comunity? If you know dogs have done it, why do you presume that foxes have done it more than the dogs. Are you a specialist for checking bite/damage marks? Do you see foxes running off with your pets?

I'm sorry but again you're using Foxes as your own scapegoat out of responsibility.

[Nick]

They're evil pests, who should all be killed. There's another.

I have had a few pets killed by my neighbor's dogs, but for the most part, I KNOW foxes have done it.

And what, per say, were your pets that got killed by "foxes"?

Chihuahuas?
Canaries outside their cages?
A turtle?
Maybe even a simple garden snake or a rabbit or two you kept as a pet and let outside the cage?

Like the OP said, they don't attack anything larger than themselves and if you come back with "Oh my god, it ate my german shepard puppy!"
NO. :|
I won't believe it, and neither will anyone else on the board because unless the mother died while giving birth, died after, was with you, or was chained up (but the barking would probably still scare the fox away), it would've went after the fox attacking it's child. Along with anything else that had a baby not fully grown and was around it at the time.

And unless the rabbit (which I will admit, some foxes go for occasionally) was part of your soul and you'll die without it, I don't see why you can't just get another rabbit?

Yes, I sound heartless about that but the dog I had for fourteen years died not even a year and a half ago and I loved him to bits but guess what? I got over it because I knew there was nothing I could do to bring him back or reverse time.

Now, on the off chance that you some how have foxes that are actually kind of bold, why should you hate the entire species? And commit genocide? If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were just trying to piss off the people who were so excited about being able to possibly tame foxes. I may get pissed when a coyote manages to nab one of our cats, but I'd never kill the entire species, that's just wrong.

This.

I loathe, despise, detese and generally wish to commit fox genocide, so please understand I shall make this point on any pro-fox thread, to show my disdain.

Loving your signature there. :/
Peace or gtfo, you really aren't helping at all. You are allowed to have you opinion, but just saying "oh, I hate foxes! Genocide, woo!" only states:
1. Close-minded statement fail
2. Troll

[Changed my last sentance a little because of Mania's reminder]

[Mania]

Interesting facts, zedxrgal. I'd be interested to hear your experiences with coyotes, if you have those as well.

Firefrost: So far as I can tell, this thread was started specifically to troll you. My suggestion is to stay off of it -- and I'm not saying that as 'bad Firefrost, stay off our thread' but because I don't think it's worth it for you to engage here. The decision is up to you, of course.

A reminder for everyone else on the basic rules of this forum:

• That is a closed-minded statement -- OK
• You are a closed-minded person -- not OK

[Rarako]

My grandparents' had a few wooded acres out a little north of Atlanta and a house in a wooded up-in-coming community before that and my parents' home is next to a wildlife preserve in an other heavily wooded neighborhood and I have never seen the foxes I know live in the area but once. I spent most of my time outside when I was a kid playing, drawing/photographing things I found, or just wandering and the only two signs I ever saw of any foxes was a fox skull on my grandparents' land with the tip of a bird's talon lodged in it (looked like a hawk's) and one fox momma that was running her kits across the road, that's it. I've seen coyotes, raccoons, deer, all manner of birds and small animals, snakes, turtles, and even a bear once which don't even live in that area but only once a fox.

I had a neighbor that for the longest time blamed any lost animal in the community on foxes because that's just what his family had always done. His grandfather kept chickens when he was younger and if ever a hen or chick would go missing he would blame it on foxes. This was mentioned once at a chance meeting at the local breakfast spot in town to one of my great uncles who had also run a chicken farm just up the road from his grandfather's. When he asked if my relative had lost a lot of stock to foxes Uncle Henry just looked at him like he had lost his mind. He said he had never lost a chicken to a fox and neither had this gentleman's grandfather. It turns out that some of his grandfathers prize hunting dogs had a bit of a taste for poultry and once they started in on other farmers' livestock he started blaming it on foxes to get the hounds out of hot water, well that and he had a bit of a thing going on with a lady in town and would sneak a hen or two every now and then to her... Needless to stay that that poor guy had no idea that this had been a running joke in the community for decades.

The first and only time I ever saw a fox in the wild they became one of my favorite animals. I had heard that foxes lived in the area form my dad who used to hunt when he was younger (he only ever ran into two that whole time and both got the better of him and the beagles), but I don't think I ever really believed him. Much like I never believed him when he said that there were snapping turtles as big as a truck tire in the little estuaries that covered the town until I saw them myself. It was early morning and my mom was driving the two of us somewhere, I was six or seven at the time and as we made our way down the road I kept a lookout to see if any early morning animals were out and about. Suddenly Mom slowed the minivan and pulled off on the the shoulder of the road. She pointed to the far stretch of highway and that's when I saw her. There in the grass was a ruddy brown fox almost crawling across the road, one kit in her mouth and another two in tow. They made their way across three deserted lanes and stopped in the median where momma put down one kit and checked the other two over. Picking up another kit, she made her way across the next three lanes while the other two huddled in the grass median.

After depositing kit number one in some taller grass on the road side she made her way back to the other two. She picked up another and started across again, she was about halfway there when the last kit darted after her. By the time she was dropping off kit number two the little guy was half way to her. She turned back to go after him when a truck came barreling down the road, and he froze. The truck was in the far left lane, the pup in the center far to the right, so he should have been fine but the truck suddenly switched lanes and came right for him. Momma fox sprang into action. She seemed to fly from her spot on the road side and darted out into the way of the oncoming truck to grab the little straggler. She swooped down and snatched the last kit from his frozen spot, nearly getting hit herself, she deftly dodged the front tires and was back with the other two kits on the side of the road before I think the little guy knew what happened.

My mom and I both watched in stunned silence, thinking everything was over when the truck came racing backwards and screeched to a halt next the the mother and kits. The guy got out and looked over his hood at the small family, momma was still there standing over her babies in the most protective pose I think I had ever seen just staring him down, she knew she couldn't run and have the kits keep up with her so she stayed there with them to try to keep them safe. The guy, seeing this leaned into his truck and pulled out a shotgun. I just remember thinking that this was the sickest human being I had ever seen up to this point in my life, a man who saw and animal in the road and switched lanes to hit it, then when he saw that a mother was defining her kits his first instinct was to kill them.

Suddenly I felt the van under me lurch into action. My mother through the vehicle into drive and raced for the truck, she flew toward the opened truck door and the man jumped inside, pulling the door closed before she almost took it clean off. We screeched to a halt about fifteen feet ahead of him and as he was getting out of the truck my mother through the van into reverse and raced back at him, slamming on the brakes not a foot from the front of his truck. She jumped out and stared him down, then said "Are you going to drive on to where ever you need to get to and leave them alone, or do I have to really hit you with my car this time? Anyone who would dare try to harm any mother protecting her babies ought to never have been born in the first place."

The guy just stood there in stunned silence for a minute, then got back in his truck, backed up and slowly drove away. Once she was back in the van we both looked over to where the furry little family had been, they were gone without a trace. I have never seen a fox since, but that I will never forget.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Eh, why don't we leave this where it is? There are a lot of strong feelings on both sides of this, and nothing good is going to come of getting angry at one another.

[zedxrgal]

I didn't start this thread to cause a major debate or create a dividing line between follk. My posting was based on facts to hopefully help people understand. I have had the pleasure of interacting with many wild species including tigers.

The largest foxes do not exceed 17 lbs most average about 10 lbs to 12 pounds. That's pretty small to be taking on someone's 10+ plus house cat.
They're very difficult to keep track of because they're so shy and some have become completely nocturnal just to avoid humans and scientist have witness females moving dens with young kits just to avoid them. Some animals being studied completely disappeared.


Again really yes without a shred of proof I'm more inclined to believe that pets were being killed by many other things then a fox.
But alas everyone is entitled to their opinions and the way they feel whether it's misguided or not.

Mania,
What all would you like to know?
Coyotes are a good little canine but in my experiences more of the problem causers compared to foxes. I've lost a lot to them. Believe it or not I've lost livestock to birds of prey to.

[Saturo]

Anyone who would dare try to harm any mother protecting her babies ought to never have been born in the first place

Sadly, people like that exist. Sure, I don't like foxes a lot either, but killing them? No.
But if I see one, I WILL scare it off.

For example, take the guy that threw a dog off a bridge, or the 4chan tard that chopped the head off of another dog.

[Dakonic]

I just wanted to say the signature went a little to far. Starting to sound arrogant. =/

I do get nervous around labradors at times because I have been attacked by them 6 times and my dogs have been attacked by them atleast 8 times. Every time my dog was on a leash and the other person was letting there dog run free. I do not wan't to kill all labs, I LOATHE there stupid irresponsible owners. Guess what, one tore a chunk out of my arm and the police gave the owner a $50 ticket. Were I live if a pit bull looking dog did that, they would of killed it. But no, its a lab so it gets to live. God I hate the bad rap pit bulls get, any breed can be bad, but the owner makes them that way.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Actually, I do have one more thing to say. Why bother going into pro-fox threads just to bash foxes? Does it really bother you that much that people may, heaven forbid, like something that you don't? Why go out of your way just to argue with some one? Not everyone has had the same experience as you, and from my own experience, and from what Zed stated, you are in the minority.

[Saturo]

Palla, the reason to have forums is to have discussions. A discussion requires several standpoints. The pro-fox and dis-fox in this case. Sure, his post wasn't a counterargument, but there is a reason for him to go into this thread anyway. To provide his point of view. Not allowing him in here would be like saying "This thread is pro-pokemon. Nothing negative may be said about pokemon in here." There wouldn't be much of a discussion in that thread without someone arguing against pokemon.

Anyhow, /leave for me now.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I understand that, Saturo, and I normally welcome counter-arguments. This isn't a counter argument, this is a flat out "I hate something, and I am going to go into any thread that professes a love for said something just to say that I hate it."

[Dewclaw]

I understand that, Saturo, and I normally welcome counter-arguments. This isn't a counter argument, this is a flat out "I hate something, and I am going to go into any thread that professes a love for said something just to say that I hate it."

I think I agree with Palla on this. Sounds like they're setting out to do some purposeful thread crapping to me.

[Niabi]

I for one love most animal species and find foxes, in particular, to be one of the most beautiful if not misjudged creatures on earth. If it is possible to tame one come Cataclysm, I will most definitely be adding one to my little WoW family!

Of course, as with ALL species, there is always the potential for bad and good; nothing is absolute. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions in either case but it saddens me to think anyone could be so biased as to want to commit genocide to an entire species. Nothing deserves that kind of discrimination. I am just thankful that these are only words being spoken in regards to an online game (or at least I sincerely hope so).