Old God effects on WoW Fauna

[Thanøs]

Something that feels especially strange when you have Fen Striders (very different from Water Striders) and the new Ravagers (also very different from the Ravagers we know) in the Water Strider and Ravager families.

Well with Ravager's they have an explanation. When Dreanor blew up and the remaining chunks ended up in the Twisting Nether and the landmass became known as Outland. The nether apparently affected all life on what became Outland, stunting and mutating them. Just on looks of the new Ravager models we can see obvious ties to Silithid so this is simply what Ravager's of Dreanor looked like before it became Outland.

The Silithid connection itself is confusing as it is known the Silithid came to be from the magic of the Well of Eternity on ancient Kalimdor. C'Thun took them and created the Aqir the original insectoid race of Azeroth that later split off into Nerubian, Qiraji and Mantid after the war with the Gurubashi and Amani trolls. Oddly enough the trolls suspected that the Aqir themselves still live in colonies deep underground but this has never been verified.

Wow I went off on a tangent there... anyway! Silitihd and Ravagers.. there are creature called Silithid Ravager(Silithid Reaver) and they look very much like the new model of ravager. Since it is known that the Silithid originated on Azaroth how did they get to Dreanor?

[Qraljar]

Something that feels especially strange when you have Fen Striders (very different from Water Striders) and the new Ravagers (also very different from the Ravagers we know) in the Water Strider and Ravager families.

Well with Ravager's they have an explanation. When Dreanor blew up and the remaining chunks ended up in the Twisting Nether and the landmass became known as Outland. The nether apparently affected all life on what became Outland, stunting and mutating them. Just on looks of the new Ravager models we can see obvious ties to Silithid so this is simply what Ravager's of Dreanor looked like before it became Outland.

The Silithid connection itself is confusing as it is known the Silithid came to be from the magic of the Well of Eternity on ancient Kalimdor. C'Thun took them and created the Aqir the original insectoid race of Azeroth that later split off into Nerubian, Qiraji and Mantid after the war with the Gurubashi and Amani trolls. Oddly enough the trolls suspected that the Aqir themselves still live in colonies deep underground but this has never been verified.

Wow I went off on a tangent there... anyway! Silitihd and Ravagers.. there are creature called Silithid Ravager(Silithid Reaver) and they look very much like the new model of ravager. Since it is known that the Silithid originated on Azaroth how did they get to Dreanor?

Well, it is hinted that there is an Old God on Draenor, and that the Arakkoa who later became corrupted fell out of favour with Terokk, because they preferred to follow this dark Old God. There are also the Arakkoa in TBC that tried to summon a C'Thun-esque creature.


Since Old Gods like to use a similar template, it could be that they look similar because they are both Old god creations.


Another possible hint towards the Old God on Draenor is the existence of the Scorpar, presumably a Scorpion-like humanoid species that is currently only vaguely alluded to. In fact, those Rock Flayers could be mutated Scorpar. And Scorpar could be an Old God race. Seeing as every insect race has Old God origins. Qiraji, Nerubians, Mantid. If it's an insect race, it is created by Old Gods. This has been a theme so far, and I'm sure they will stick with that theme.


So yes, the Hook Wasps, Scorpar and Ravagers could all be the creations of a Draenor Old God.

[Thanøs]

Something that feels especially strange when you have Fen Striders (very different from Water Striders) and the new Ravagers (also very different from the Ravagers we know) in the Water Strider and Ravager families.

Well with Ravager's they have an explanation. When Dreanor blew up and the remaining chunks ended up in the Twisting Nether and the landmass became known as Outland. The nether apparently affected all life on what became Outland, stunting and mutating them. Just on looks of the new Ravager models we can see obvious ties to Silithid so this is simply what Ravager's of Dreanor looked like before it became Outland.

The Silithid connection itself is confusing as it is known the Silithid came to be from the magic of the Well of Eternity on ancient Kalimdor. C'Thun took them and created the Aqir the original insectoid race of Azeroth that later split off into Nerubian, Qiraji and Mantid after the war with the Gurubashi and Amani trolls. Oddly enough the trolls suspected that the Aqir themselves still live in colonies deep underground but this has never been verified.

Wow I went off on a tangent there... anyway! Silitihd and Ravagers.. there are creature called Silithid Ravager(Silithid Reaver) and they look very much like the new model of ravager. Since it is known that the Silithid originated on Azaroth how did they get to Dreanor?

Well, it is hinted that there is an Old God on Draenor, and that the Arakkoa who later became corrupted fell out of favour with Terokk, because they preferred to follow this dark Old God. There are also the Arakkoa in TBC that tried to summon a C'Thun-esque creature.


Since Old Gods like to use a similar template, it could be that they look similar because they are both Old god creations.


Another possible hint towards the Old God on Draenor is the existence of the Scorpar, presumably a Scorpion-like humanoid species that is currently only vaguely alluded to. In fact, those Rock Flayers could be mutated Scorpar. And Scorpar could be an Old God race. Seeing as every insect race has Old God origins. Qiraji, Nerubians, Mantid. If it's an insect race, it is created by Old Gods. This has been a theme so far, and I'm sure they will stick with that theme.


So yes, the Hook Wasps, Scorpar and Ravagers could all be the creations of a Draenor Old God.

Well as I said Silithids were created naturally thanks to the Well of Eternity on Kalimdor back when the world was one continent it was C'Thun who turned Silithid into Aqir. It's possible Silithids somehow got to Dreanor via portal I suppose. But such has yet to be explored in the lore. I am sure we will see soemthing seeing as they named the mount reaver.

[Lisaara]

Something that feels especially strange when you have Fen Striders (very different from Water Striders) and the new Ravagers (also very different from the Ravagers we know) in the Water Strider and Ravager families.

Well with Ravager's they have an explanation. When Dreanor blew up and the remaining chunks ended up in the Twisting Nether and the landmass became known as Outland. The nether apparently affected all life on what became Outland, stunting and mutating them. Just on looks of the new Ravager models we can see obvious ties to Silithid so this is simply what Ravager's of Dreanor looked like before it became Outland.

The Silithid connection itself is confusing as it is known the Silithid came to be from the magic of the Well of Eternity on ancient Kalimdor. C'Thun took them and created the Aqir the original insectoid race of Azeroth that later split off into Nerubian, Qiraji and Mantid after the war with the Gurubashi and Amani trolls. Oddly enough the trolls suspected that the Aqir themselves still live in colonies deep underground but this has never been verified.

Wow I went off on a tangent there... anyway! Silitihd and Ravagers.. there are creature called Silithid Ravager(Silithid Reaver) and they look very much like the new model of ravager. Since it is known that the Silithid originated on Azaroth how did they get to Dreanor?

Well, it is hinted that there is an Old God on Draenor, and that the Arakkoa who later became corrupted fell out of favour with Terokk, because they preferred to follow this dark Old God. There are also the Arakkoa in TBC that tried to summon a C'Thun-esque creature.


Since Old Gods like to use a similar template, it could be that they look similar because they are both Old god creations.


Another possible hint towards the Old God on Draenor is the existence of the Scorpar, presumably a Scorpion-like humanoid species that is currently only vaguely alluded to. In fact, those Rock Flayers could be mutated Scorpar. And Scorpar could be an Old God race. Seeing as every insect race has Old God origins. Qiraji, Nerubians, Mantid. If it's an insect race, it is created by Old Gods. This has been a theme so far, and I'm sure they will stick with that theme.


So yes, the Hook Wasps, Scorpar and Ravagers could all be the creations of a Draenor Old God.

That wouldn't make sense though. The Black Dragons in Outland are free of corruption because there are no Old Gods out there, thus they don't hear the whispers and haven't gone mad like their brothers and sister black dragons did in Azeroth. They'd have to do a major retcon if they throw an Old God out there, especially since it was said the Old Gods only existed on Azeroth. Azeroth =/= Draenor. So I'd take these 'hints' with a huge grain of salt, though I'll do a little digging.

EDIT: Upon doing some digging, It's still solid that Old Gods are primarily Azeroth-based as I said before. However there was one that almost manifested in Outland. Keyword: Almost. It didn't happen for one reason or another, though that may be the one you were talking about with the Arrakoa. I never did that quest line myself so I didn't know about it.
http://wowpedia.org/Old_Gods

Anywhoozle, I'm tired and probably gonna get some sleep. XD Just wanted to throw my two cents cause I'm very fond of the draconic lore in WoW and would not be a happy camper if they suddenly messed up the stuff with the Black Dragons. I guess if it's the new Draenor, it could work since it's before the First War....it could work then but....hm....There's just a lot of variables....and wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.

[Thanøs]

Eh, at worst, that seems like a fairly mild contradiction. At best, it can be made to fit just easily. Remember that it's only Sabellian and his dragons, and that we have no conclusive answer as to if anything might be creeping in their mind. Really, though. Even if not, then that wouldn't change much, because Old Gods are not interconnected entities. They are similar, they have similar ways of going about corrupting organisms. But they're not the same. As such, if a corrupted creature were to leave Azeroth to escape the whispers, that process wouldn't continue on another planet with an Old God through the sheer fact that there is an Old God there. The Old God would have to make a conscious decision to want to take over the corruption that those on Azeroth started with.


Then there's also the possibility that the Old God in our universe is already dead. Remember that the Arakkoa were trying to summon one. Something that only really happens when an Old God has perished and been pushed out of our reality and defeated. This means that, in the alternate universe where we're going, it's still alive and kicking, with Arakkoa, Scorpar, Ravagers and Hook Wasps as their minions and/or creations, still following it.


Either way. If you are to make the case that the existence of an Old God on Draenor is impossible simply because the Black Dragons are corrupted, then you have to make the case that this Old God would be in contact with the Azerothian Old Gods and would deliberately follow up on the corruption of the Black Dragons that the Azeroth Old Gods started with. We have no indication of that. None of the Old Gods on Azeroth, who would be even more connected, at any time, felt any need to follow up on what one of their brethren was doing if it perished. Yogg-Saron didn't take over the Qiraji, nor the Mantid. Nor did N'Zoth or any other currently unnamed Old God.


Otherwise you have to make the case that an Old God corrupts anything, and therefore the Black Dragons should fall to corruption again as they're just one of the victims who conveniently made it into that list and already had an Old God history. This is observably untrue, as Azeroth holds many life-forms that the Old Gods have left alone for now, to focus on others that could be of more use to them. This Old God just so happened to have other priorities, another focus, and left the Black Dragons on Draenor alone, which can easily happen.

I can't help myself I love Old God lore.. so here goes XD

Old God's did not get along with each other. They warred with each other in fact. Millennia ago, Warlord Zon'ozz and his faceless soldiers waged endless war in the name of N'Zoth against the forces of C'Thun and Yogg-Saron. Now I am not sure if this fighting was universal throughout or if this was just N'Zoth vs those two or if it was a three way war. So would Old Gods take up the work of another? Possibly? But likely not.

The better question at hand is why do they corrupt not will they corrupt. On Azeroth we know the Old Gods invented the "Curse of Flesh" in reality a virus that turned the mechanical and stone constructs of the titans into beings of flesh. Why?

We know that this "Curse of Flesh" destabilized the matrix. Matrix in this sense refers to the body of the creatures inflicted; Earthen, Vykrul, Mechgnomes, Mogu, etc. But why destabilize the matrix? Why make them flesh? The Old Gods were restoring chaos that was replaced by the titans order. The titans did not create Azeroth, it was already there, they simply arrived and brought order to the place. But why did the Old Gods want to revert back to chaos? The fancy pants titan computers said to facilitate assimilation. So the Old Gods could feed off these creatures.

The Old Gods are responsible for all sentient life on Azeroth today save for what remains of the stone and metal constructs. Oh and a link between Trolls/Elves/Tauren/Goblins and the Old God's has yet to be found or established, it is possible that these races existed before the Titans arrived. But the Old God's are directly responsible for the existence of Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Troggs, and of course the Aqir which they evolved from Silithids.

[Lisaara]

Eh, at worst, that seems like a fairly mild contradiction. At best, it can be made to fit just easily. Remember that it's only Sabellian and his dragons, and that we have no conclusive answer as to if anything might be creeping in their mind. Really, though. Even if not, then that wouldn't change much, because Old Gods are not interconnected entities. They are similar, they have similar ways of going about corrupting organisms. But they're not the same. As such, if a corrupted creature were to leave Azeroth to escape the whispers, that process wouldn't continue on another planet with an Old God through the sheer fact that there is an Old God there. The Old God would have to make a conscious decision to want to take over the corruption that those on Azeroth started with.


Then there's also the possibility that the Old God in our universe is already dead. Remember that the Arakkoa were trying to summon one. Something that only really happens when an Old God has perished and been pushed out of our reality and defeated. This means that, in the alternate universe where we're going, it's still alive and kicking, with Arakkoa, Scorpar, Ravagers and Hook Wasps as their minions and/or creations, still following it.


Either way. If you are to make the case that the existence of an Old God on Draenor is impossible simply because the Black Dragons are corrupted, then you have to make the case that this Old God would be in contact with the Azerothian Old Gods and would deliberately follow up on the corruption of the Black Dragons that the Azeroth Old Gods started with. We have no indication of that. None of the Old Gods on Azeroth, who would be even more connected, at any time, felt any need to follow up on what one of their brethren was doing if it perished. Yogg-Saron didn't take over the Qiraji, nor the Mantid. Nor did N'Zoth or any other currently unnamed Old God.


Otherwise you have to make the case that an Old God corrupts anything, and therefore the Black Dragons should fall to corruption again as they're just one of the victims who conveniently made it into that list and already had an Old God history. This is observably untrue, as Azeroth holds many life-forms that the Old Gods have left alone for now, to focus on others that could be of more use to them. This Old God just so happened to have other priorities, another focus, and left the Black Dragons on Draenor alone, which can easily happen.

I can't help myself I love Old God lore.. so here goes XD

Old God's did not get along with each other. They warred with each other in fact. Millennia ago, Warlord Zon'ozz and his faceless soldiers waged endless war in the name of N'Zoth against the forces of C'Thun and Yogg-Saron. Now I am not sure if this fighting was universal throughout or if this was just N'Zoth vs those two or if it was a three way war. So would Old Gods take up the work of another? Possibly? But likely not.

The better question at hand is why do they corrupt not will they corrupt. On Azeroth we know the Old Gods invented the "Curse of Flesh" in reality a virus that turned the mechanical and stone constructs of the titans into beings of flesh. Why?

We know that this "Curse of Flesh" destabilized the matrix. Matrix in this sense refers to the body of the creatures inflicted; Earthen, Vykrul, Mechgnomes, Mogu, etc. But why destabilize the matrix? Why make them flesh? The Old Gods were restoring chaos that was replaced by the titans order. The titans did not create Azeroth, it was already there, they simply arrived and brought order to the place. But why did the Old Gods want to revert back to chaos? The fancy pants titan computers said to facilitate assimilation. So the Old Gods could feed off these creatures.

The Old Gods are responsible for all sentient life on Azeroth today save for what remains of the stone and metal constructs. Oh and a link between Trolls/Elves/Tauren/Goblins and the Old God's has yet to be found or established, it is possible that these races existed before the Titans arrived. But the Old God's are directly responsible for the existence of Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Troggs, and of course the Aqir which they evolved from Silithids.

I guess I'm just antsy about it because I'm a stickler with draconic lore, especially WoW's and my dragoness, Melanthia, plays on the fact the black dragons are disconnected from the Old Gods in Outland(can do a google search. It's been brought up several times). That's how she's been able to stay sane cause she was out there with Sabellian for months....probably years.

[Thanøs]

Well N'Zoth is the one responsible for the black dragonflights corruption and that's simply because Deathwing was the Earth-warder and connected to the earth where the old gods are imprisoned and that allowed an easy connection to the black dragonflight. An Old God on Dreanor would need a reason to corrupt those dragons, wouldn't just do it for the sake of doing it.

[Nachtwulf]

That's also a point. The dragons in Outland are a small intrusive force and lack the power base and, well, usefulness that the Black Flight of Azeroth has. While an individual dragon is pretty potent, all those dead ones stuck on stone spikes demonstrate the fact that they're far from the top of the totem pole out there. They really aren't a big enough deal to attract an old god; they'd want something with more bang for their corruption buck.

[Lisaara]

Very good point, yes. Since N'Zoth isn't out there, the black dragons out there aren't getting whispers of "Hey...hey...you should totally go burn down that village over there." or anything. The black dragons of Outland are very few these days...minute at best. I think the Netherwings even outnumber them by a good deal now because of Gruul and his kids slaying a lot of the blacks.

[Qraljar]

Well N'Zoth is the one responsible for the black dragonflights corruption and that's simply because Deathwing was the Earth-warder and connected to the earth where the old gods are imprisoned and that allowed an easy connection to the black dragonflight. An Old God on Dreanor would need a reason to corrupt those dragons, wouldn't just do it for the sake of doing it.

This is something I mentioned before. Just because they were corrupted on Azeroth once doesn't necessarily mean that they would be now. There is not some kind of literal connection between Old Gods where one takes over for the other when a being leaves Azeroth or something.


In fact, Old Gods very much seem to prefer being at war with each other unless they need to band together.

[Thanøs]

Old Gods end game.

They want the Burning Legion to come and destroy the planet as it would not kill them but it would free them. That is the True End time, the true Hour of Twilight. N'Zoth corrupted Deathwing to ensure the Aspects could not stop the Hour of Twilight as that is their sole purpose for existing. Deathwing was N'Zoth's red herring and the Aspects fell for it hook line and sinker. Now the stage is set, the Burning Legion will tear open a portal and invade Azeroth, destroy the planet and free the Old Gods.

Either that or they want to war with the legion themselves because the chaos that would ensure would be glorious to them.

[Slickrock]

For a moment thought title of this thread was "old gods effects on WoW forums"

[Lisaara]

For a moment thought title of this thread was "old gods effects on WoW forums"

Damnit Yoggy!

[Qraljar]

For a moment thought title of this thread was "old gods effects on WoW forums"

I knew N'Zoth was behind all those forum trolls. My heart won't explode, but my brain will -- thank you for the assessment, C'Thun.

[Lisaara]

For a moment thought title of this thread was "old gods effects on WoW forums"

I knew N'Zoth was behind all those forum trolls. My heart won't explode, but my brain will -- thank you for the assessment, C'Thun.

That might explain the official forums....a great deal....

[SylviaDragon]

Very good point, yes. Since N'Zoth isn't out there, the black dragons out there aren't getting whispers of "Hey...hey...you should totally go burn down that village over there." or anything. The black dragons of Outland are very few these days...minute at best. I think the Netherwings even outnumber them by a good deal now because of Gruul and his kids slaying a lot of the blacks.

this is going to go a bit off topic but..

correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain there are no more black dragons in outlands. when Deathwing returned the black dragons of outland chose to go support their aspect and returned to Azeroth. I don't remember if it was a normal quest or the part of the rouge dagger quest, but you do get sent out to kill one of the matriarchs that returned from outland. as far as lore goes I think Wrathion has you kill off all the remaining black dragons. he is the only one left.

Which makes me curious to see if there will be any black dragons hiding in this alternate timeline outlands, although it may be too early for them to have arrived. But they had to be there long enough to mutate into nether drakes right? I'm curious to see if Wrathion will find a black/nether mate...and if that can be considered a good thing.

[Lisaara]

Very good point, yes. Since N'Zoth isn't out there, the black dragons out there aren't getting whispers of "Hey...hey...you should totally go burn down that village over there." or anything. The black dragons of Outland are very few these days...minute at best. I think the Netherwings even outnumber them by a good deal now because of Gruul and his kids slaying a lot of the blacks.

this is going to go a bit off topic but..

correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain there are no more black dragons in outlands. when Deathwing returned the black dragons of outland chose to go support their aspect and returned to Azeroth. I don't remember if it was a normal quest or the part of the rouge dagger quest, but you do get sent out to kill one of the matriarchs that returned from outland. as far as lore goes I think Wrathion has you kill off all the remaining black dragons. he is the only one left.

Which makes me curious to see if there will be any black dragons hiding in this alternate timeline outlands, although it may be too early for them to have arrived. But they had to be there long enough to mutate into nether drakes right? I'm curious to see if Wrathion will find a black/nether mate...and if that can be considered a good thing.

No, that's incorrect. The blacks in outland never went back with Deathwing and Deathwing never went there during the Cataclysm. Most of the blacks, but not all, were killed by Gruul and his ilk. The devs mentioned that a few times too, including Sabellian. He's alive and well and still out there.

Wowpedia/Wowwiki - Following the ultimate defeat of both Deathwing and his allies, the remainder of the Black Dragonflight was exterminated by the other flights. At current, only two members are known to exist - Sabellian in Outland and Wrathion in Azeroth. With no known females to breed with, it is quite possible that these two represent the last remaining Black Dragons to exist. Only time will tell if the flight can somehow rise from the ashes of extermination. (From the Black Dragonflight page)

Joystiq - http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/05/ask-c ... -revealed/
"Wrathion thinks he's the last black dragon, but Sabellian is still in Outland leading the black dragons there, and there could even be black drgaons in Azeroth Wrathion doesn't know about yet."

[SylviaDragon]

Oh! I DO remember him! But I think he was in human for when I came across him so I forgot about him completely. That's interesting.

[Lisaara]

Yar! Baron Sablemane = Sabellian
When you complete his questline, he kicks some butt as a dragon. x3

[Xota]

I was under the impression that Old Gods were a tenuously aligned cosmic force that predated the Titans and the Burning Legion. That there were 'bug worlds' out in the cosmos, that they controlled, including Azeroth. When the Titans encountered them on Azeroth, they did something different than usual for some reason. Maybe Azeroth had more Old Gods than typical, maybe they were more powerful, or maybe the Titans just wanted to experiment. They mostly killed one and imprisoned the rest, and reshaped Azeroth as a giant prison for them, populating it with stone and metal beings, in addition to what was already there.

So the Well of Eternity uplifted some races, some demigods might have uplifted some (and for the Saurok, they were uplifted by Titan tech by mere Mogu), and the curse of flesh changed some metal and stone races all meaty. And effected their thought processes, free-will or whatever you want to call it. In fact, some of the stone/metal races seemed to get the meaty-state-of-mind without going all meaty (eg: A lot of the Earthen and some of the mechagnomes display a lot of individuality). There's even stone troggs.

On Draenor, we knew of some Arrakoa being in contact with an Old God. But it seemed to be 'away' from Outland/Draenor in a different way than the Old Gods of Azeroth. And with the unmutated ravager being similar to silithid, and talk that the Titans visited Draenor, it seems more and more likely that Draenor was, at least in part, a bug planet too. Hopefully, though, we're not going to end up with an identical history for Draenor with a Draenic Well of Eternity and whatnot.

As far as the Burning Legion freeing the Old Gods, I think it might be a little different. I think the Legion would see them as competition, and would either want to destroy them or to enslave them and use them as weapons.