need some advice

[kairii]

OK I know one of the rules asks us NOT to name and shame but trust me this isnt me or asking you do to that!
I need some advice on how to tell someone they need to rework their gear .... badly. Now this person I am naming is in teh same guild as me .. they are BM full time but in a ICC 25 the healers did more DPs then them .... I didn't get mad I don't think I am pro compared to this person, its just when you look at them you can tell they need help. So me and another hunter were trying to ask questions about their gear/gems etc. and said hunter did not reply.
So after talking to the other hunter we decided I should be the one who mails them as I can soften the blow and not be like AMFG U NOOB L2PLAY!! cas thats just stupid -.-
I will proive a link so you can understand why I want some advice on how to tell this person they need to do a few things I asked in /g about this person they said they wanted to Raid so invited ...
This is the hunter I am talking about.
AGAIN DO NOT NAG!
But the little information I have on this hunter, they want to remain a BM hunter I think they want to use their corehound? (not sure only pet ive seen them use)
Now for me I feel a small flame burning up inside but I just ingore it I kinda blame myself for my realms BM spree since I refuse to respecc ditch pets and from saturday I did LK 10 man as a BM hunter ... and wasn't bottom DPS So I didnt get that mad compared to others who kicked off ... 'MPFFFFF5 ON A HUNTER WTF' I dont wanna see that here!!!
I just want idea on how I could word to them to improve not for the hunter rep but to help my guild ... I aint a officer there but they are my friends I gotta look out for em!
EDIT! its not just this hunter but its the fast track way to get advice I seen some with rogue gear gemming hit when they are hit capped not using their proffs


so wtb advice!! you wanna flame?theres my hunter alt flame me not the other person!

[Teigan]

On paper, her gear beats mine by a long shot. Looks like she's pure BM tree though and not hit capped? That could be part of it. I'm not an expert, though, not by a long shot! There are way more qualified people on this forum! It's noble of you to try and help her...I just hope she doesn't see the post.
My best, uneducated guess is shot priorities and talent tree? Also, her corehound looks specced for less than optimal damage.

[kairii]

Honestly I kinda have a voice in my head wishing one of them would, like for me its ok I normally go pug raids theres like one to many hunters so Im trying to get my healer to be a main in that guild for them, it isnt a pro raiding guild or out but common sence kicks in at some point and they wanna raid they need to ensure they are doing the best they can like you wanna be BM go go one of teh best tress same with SV and MM like the hunter I talked to didn't understand his hit cap wasnt 8% since he had 3% from a talants I was kinda sly and posted a hunter guide on their forum ... but not everyone uses it D:
worse thing is people nag they dont get anywhere in raids and they wonder why?
i aint saying its sololy said hunters fault ... cas trust me it isnt but right now DPS is the main issue and they kinda flame me for pugging so i explained to the GM why and they asked for my help ... but I just dunno how to say to someone go here and this site helps to! without coming off as a compelete bitch (excuse me if you find that word 'wrong')
like i aint a flamer i told you to flame me but not said hunter.

[Karathyriel]

To be honest, I don't see the point.

First of al, I am no pro either. I played my first raid when WotLK came out and I play since vanilla. Instances and playing in a group was pure horror for me as I was a total noob back in 2006 and all that ever happened were people blaming each other when something went wrong or telling everyone how good they are when the boss went down. Meh! That's not what I call "group play".

Here is the hunter I used to play before I quit WoW: Karathyriel

Am I any better? But still, my guilds raid leader looked at me from every angle and sent me an invite for kicking the Lich Kings ass.
Gear is not everything!

So me and another hunter were trying to ask questions about their gear/gems etc. and said hunter did not reply.

Obviously, the hunter in question does not want your help. I can understand that as I absolutely hated to see people telling me how to play my toon.

I kinda blame myself for my realms BM spree since I refuse to respecc ditch pets and from saturday I did LK 10 man as a BM hunter ... and wasn't bottom DPS

Especially when it comes from someone who isn't top DPS as well.

I hope you get my point here, I'm not flaming, I'm just telling you how I see the situation.

In my opinion, there is only one person who can tell me I need to improve: THE RAIDLEADER!
This person alone can tell me: "Sorry pal, not good enough, we need your spot for someone with higher DPS. Improve and I'll be happy to get you back on the team."
From then on, it is my decision. Do I want that spot back? I'm gonna look for someone to tell me how I can improve. Or do I prefer my style of play? Then I'm gonna look for another raid who wants me in or stop raiding.

It is just that I feel that you don't have the right to run around criticizing other people. Talk to your guilds raid leader about it or leave it be.

i explained to the GM why and they asked for my help

Man, I was laughing so hard when I read that! What kind of a leader is he? Did you roll for the leadership or is he simply the guy who was buying the 10 silver guild scroll?

Honestly, it is his duty to solve guilds problems, not yours. Maybe he can let the raid leader do it if he doesn't want to get involved. At least, one of the officers should handle it, that is why you have them, right? Let them sort it out.

[Wassa]

The thing is people won't take advice on how to improve, no matter how bad they are, unless they accept they need help and want to improve. If that hunter doesn't care, then you won't get through to them.

I had a similar issue with another hunter back in BC. We were in the same guild and both officers. She was only an officer because she was the raid leader's girlfriend at the time and she didn't have a clue how to play. She used melee weapons with "chance on hit" procs, took any gear she thought looked "cool" on her, usually just afk auto shot her way through raids and was always below the tanks and sometimes below even the healers in damage done. She was a dead weight in the raid but kept on getting invites because of her boyfriend. I tried over and over to help her improve but she wouldn't take any advice since, as she would say, we were the same rank so she didn't need to listen to me. =/ When we got more serious with raiding during Vashj/KT attempts her boyfriend stopped inviting her to raids and she eventually left the guild.

[Curumor]

Well, Karathyriel makes some very good points.
As a raidleader or guildmaster, it's your responsibility to make sure members who join raids are up to scratch with gear and dps. If someone can't cut it, it's also your job to say so. Or alternatively, a class leader. It's shouldn't fall on a random guild member (in this case, you).

But seeing as I have some experience in teaching hunters the basics and so on, I'll try to give some advice.

First of all, you need to point out that something is seriously wrong and what consequences it will have it isn't fixed.
In this case, it's Oxotoo-whatever's dps. Simply tell him that he's not performing good enough to validate a spot in the raid. And you need to be serious about this! Casual guilds and raiding is all well and good, but there's a limit to how loose you can be with restrictions if you actually want to progress or even kill things at all.

Once he's been made awareof the problem, you can start giving him advice on how to fix things.

Let's start with the gear:
Enchants are ok, so np there. But gems are not good enough.
Hunters should only use 1 yellow gem and 1 blue gem (or 1 prismatic). Everything else should be red (agi, arp or ap, depending on specc).
Meta gem should be Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Persitent Earthsiege is a pvp gem.

Same goes for head and shoulder enchants. Both are PvP. They should be Arcanum of Torment and Inscription of the Axe.

Glyphs need to be fixed too.
BM glyphs are Beastial Wrath, Steady Shot, and either Serpent Sting or of the Hawk.

And ofc, start using WotLK ammo.


Now for the talent specc:
Simply put, it's a huge waste of points.
The following BM talents do not belong in a raid specc
-Endurance Training
-Thick Hide
-Pathfinding
-Imp. Mend Pet

The rest are somewhat optional (assuming you're not min/max'ing), but a decent BM raid build should look something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ctbMzxtRwu0estcxVs0z

Focused Aim will fix his hit rating, but can be ditched when he reaches hit cap.
You don't need more than 3 points in Frenzy, but 4 is ok too. 5 is a waste.
Lethal Shots and Mortal Shots are self-explanatory.

As for pet specc it should look like this: http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#mq0c0fc00hoRb
(if pet keeps dying, move a point from Shark Attack to Heart of the Phoenix)

And last, but absolutely not least, shot rotation:
Since hunters don't really use a set rotation anymore, you need to have a shot priority.
It should look something like this:

Kill Shot
Serpent Sting
Aimed Shot (if specced)/Multi-Shot
Arcane Shot
Steady Shot

What that means is that if Aimed Shot is off CD, you use it before Arcane or Steady Shot.
But if Serpent Sting is about to run out, you refresh that before any other shot, except Kill Shot.
And so on...
A nice way to keep track of your priority is an addon called Watcher. It basically tells you which shot to use at any given time and what's ready or not.

Beastial Wrath should be used at the start of combat and everytime it's off CD after that.
Same goes for Rapid Fire (except if Heroism/Bloodlust is up) and Kill Command (and with a Ferocity pet, Call of the Wild).

Note that these are just very basic and simplified hunter tips. But if he follows them his dps should increase substanstially.
Atm, he should be doing about 3k dps (with proper rotation, but without raid buffs).
After fixing things, he should be at about 4k (again, without raid buffs).

Btw...out of interest, how much dps was he doing on average..?

[Siliverin]

Well, Karathyriel makes some very good points.
As a raidleader or guildmaster, it's your responsibility to make sure members who join raids are up to scratch with gear and dps. If someone can't cut it, it's also your job to say so. Or alternatively, a class leader. It's shouldn't fall on a random guild member (in this case, you).

But seeing as I have some experience in teaching hunters the basics and so on, I'll try to give some advice.

First of all, you need to point out that something is seriously wrong and what consequences it will have it isn't fixed.
In this case, it's Oxotoo-whatever's dps. Simply tell him that he's not performing good enough to validate a spot in the raid. And you need to be serious about this! Casual guilds and raiding is all well and good, but there's a limit to how loose you can be with restrictions if you actually want to progress or even kill things at all.

Once he's been made awareof the problem, you can start giving him advice on how to fix things.

Let's start with the gear:
Enchants are ok, so np there. But gems are not good enough.
Hunters should only use 1 yellow gem and 1 blue gem (or 1 prismatic). Everything else should be red (agi, arp or ap, depending on specc).
Meta gem should be Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Persitent Earthsiege is a pvp gem.

Same goes for head and shoulder enchants. Both are PvP. They should be Arcanum of Torment and Inscription of the Axe.

Glyphs need to be fixed too.
BM glyphs are Beastial Wrath, Steady Shot, and either Serpent Sting or of the Hawk.

And ofc, start using WotLK ammo.


Now for the talent specc:
Simply put, it's a huge waste of points.
The following BM talents do not belong in a raid specc
-Endurance Training
-Thick Hide
-Pathfinding
-Imp. Mend Pet

The rest are somewhat optional (assuming you're not min/max'ing), but a decent BM raid build should look something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ctbMzxtRwu0estcxVs0z

Focused Aim will fix his hit rating, but can be ditched when he reaches hit cap.
You don't need more than 3 points in Frenzy, but 4 is ok too. 5 is a waste.
Lethal Shots and Mortal Shots are self-explanatory.

As for pet specc it should look like this: http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#mq0c0fc00hoRb
(if pet keeps dying, move a point from Shark Attack to Heart of the Phoenix)

And last, but absolutely not least, shot rotation:
Since hunters don't really use a set rotation anymore, you need to have a shot priority.
It should look something like this:

Kill Shot
Serpent Sting
Aimed Shot (if specced)/Multi-Shot
Arcane Shot
Steady Shot

What that means is that if Aimed Shot is off CD, you use it before Arcane or Steady Shot.
But if Serpent Sting is about to run out, you refresh that before any other shot, except Kill Shot.
And so on...
A nice way to keep track of your priority is an addon called Watcher. It basically tells you which shot to use at any given time and what's ready or not.

Beastial Wrath should be used at the start of combat and everytime it's off CD after that.
Same goes for Rapid Fire (except if Heroism/Bloodlust is up) and Kill Command (and with a Ferocity pet, Call of the Wild).

Note that these are just very basic and simplified hunter tips. But if he follows them his dps should increase substanstially.
Atm, he should be doing about 3k dps (with proper rotation, but without raid buffs).
After fixing things, he should be at about 4k (again, without raid buffs).

Btw...out of interest, how much dps was he doing on average..?

took the words right out of my mouth oO! was thinking the same thing on the pvp chants, at first i thought maybe armoerty upgraded and she had her pvp set on then i relized. nope.

but pretty much i think Curumor sum'd it all up. i have to agree it should be the raid/gm or class leader responsibility, not just " Hey you randoms guild member, tell this person such and such!"

hope it all works out though

[Anansi]

The thing is people won't take advice on how to improve, no matter how bad they are, unless they accept they need help and want to improve. If that hunter doesn't care, then you won't get through to them.

This is the crux of it. Yes, the Hunter in question clearly needs some help with their spec and gems, but unless the player themselves is wondering why they are doing poorly (or if they even recognize this) they are only going to take advice as nagging and ego-beating.

It is up to the raid leader to intervene if anything is to be done. That player is way undergeared for ICC 25 and shouldn't be included in those raids, but that's for the RL to decide and act upon. So until either the player requests advice or the RL removes the player from the raid, there's nothing you can really do as it'd be a futile attempt and generate some animosity.

All the good advice in the world will not help this player unless they actively want the help, and looking at their spec and gem choices, the player clearly feels they do not need help. If the player felt help was needed, they'd do some pretty basic research and quickly find better solutions and act upon them. But that spec and those gems says very loudly and very clearly "I'm not interested in getting better", and this is where the intervention of the raid leader needs to happen.

Basically, it's not your fight.

[Wassa]

Sowwy Curumor, but I'm picky and need to fix a few things.

Better BM spec and glyphs: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ctbMzxtRwu0est0eVoZL:biA
Improved tracking and careful aim will give a lot more dps per point than imp arcane shot and one point in efficiency. Glyph of bestial wrath isn't as important or as much of a dps increase since they changed it. Hawk, steady and kill seem to be the best glyphs now if one is serious about BM raiding.

BM pet spec http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#mqd00sc00hoRb
One point left over, either put it in charge or bloodthirsty. Cobra reflexes is a must for dps pet spec. Your pet doesn't need extra stamina as they rarely die.

Priority should be kill -> multi -> arcane -> serpent -> steady. Serpent's damage as BM is well, sad, and only used to up steady's damage if you have the glyph, so your other shots go first before you refresh serpent.

Otherwise your advice is spot on.

[Curumor]

No worries. Been ages since I raided as BM, so just went by feel and what I remembered. ^^

[kairii]

I would like to thank everyone for helping this person from our last talk seems very happy though one hunter did not like the help EVEN THOUGH he would bug me 24/7 on what to gem and such so he can just burn in hell after what he said to me ...
HAPPIER NOTE MUCH LOVE TO ALLS <3333
sadly this person left the guild via the fact on guilds run they refused to get on vent -.- and since we wanted to do achiv runs ... soo after they raged over being removed from a raid they left (and yes is says in teh guild rules you HAVE to use vent, mic not required.)

But again thanks and keep the flamers coming my way <3