Puppy build Hunter changes

[MaximumOverdrive]

Didn't know if this was posted yet, didn't see it...

* The bug affecting most hunter skills and adding the "old" minimum range on them on beta servers seems to be gone.


Beast Mastery

* Widow Venom now costs 15 Focus, down from 30 Focus.
* Aspect of the Hawk ranged attack power bonus increased by 100%.
* Intimidation no longer costs Focus.
* Kill Command now deals [ 21% of RAP + 772.27 ], down from [ 53% of RAP + 839.42 ].
* Killing Streak now deals 10/20% more damage with your third Kill Command. Down from 15/30%.
* Focus Fire now restores 4 Focus to your pet, down from 10 Focus.
* Sic 'Em! now also has a chance to proc from Kill Command, now affects your Pet's next 2 basic attacks instead of just 1.


Survival

* Camouflage now causes you to be untargetable by ranged attacks (Old - Just untargetable). Now also reduces the range at which enemy creatures can detect you.
* Readiness seems to affect Beastial Wrath once again.
* Black Arrow now costs 35 Focus, down from 45 Focus.
* Hunting Party revamped and no longer triggers Replenishment. Now Increases your total Agility by an additional 20%, and increases the Ranged and Melee Attack Speed of all party and raid members by 20%.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/197 ... ame-Puppy)

[Sarayana]

* Readiness seems to affect Beastial Wrath once again.

??????????



Aside from that, I was playing around with the talent calculator just now, and I might go SV instead of MM for my offspec in Cata. It looks like they're polishing it nicely.

[Opreich]

* Readiness seems to affect Beastial Wrath once again.

??????????

Boub has read into the change too much. They just removed the part about it not affecting BW off the tooltip as it is impossible to have both.

[Romolus]

if you also notice, they have that readiness change list under surv... when readiness is an MM ability... unless they changed that with this build as well.

[Sarayana]

* Readiness seems to affect Beastial Wrath once again.

??????????

Boub has read into the change too much. They just removed the part about it not affecting BW off the tooltip as it is impossible to have both.

Ah. Well I knew it was impossible, I just didn't understand why it was mentioned.. lol.

And Romolus, don't worry, readiness is safe and sound deep in the MM tree.

[Rulah]

Looks like BM got over-neutered. KC is almost not even worth casting compared to 2 Arcane Shots. Oh and given our terrible crit until (assumedly) high-end gear levels in Cata, Killing Streak just managed to get even worse.

I'm sure the numbers aren't final though and I'm hoping it gets buffed later to be more in between the original and this nerf's numbers.

[The Insect Man]

Far too many people QQing about OP BM hunters... rascally paladins have had their revenge...

[Tahlian]

Yeah, we got the 2.9 ret pally treatment...to the ground, baby. It was nice being viable, almost powerful, for a week or so, I guess.

Back to hiding in the shadows and getting laughed at in Cataclysm, I suppose.

Thanks, Blizzard.

[Slickrock]

Looks like BM got over-neutered. KC is almost not even worth casting compared to 2 Arcane Shots. Oh and given our terrible crit until (assumedly) high-end gear levels in Cata, Killing Streak just managed to get even worse.

I'm sure the numbers aren't final though and I'm hoping it gets buffed later to be more in between the original and this nerf's numbers.

Yeah, it's a 61% or so damage reduction.

Woot for our special shot being not worth it.

Yeah, we got the 2.9 ret pally treatment...to the ground, baby. It was nice being viable, almost powerful, for a week or so, I guess.

Back to hiding in the shadows and getting laughed at in Cataclysm, I suppose.

Thanks, Blizzard.

Yep.

If we go into Cata like this, I will not renew. I'm really tired of being mocked for being BM.

[Kalliope]

I'm sure the numbers aren't final though and I'm hoping it gets buffed later to be more in between the original and this nerf's numbers.

^

The pet pass is still unfinished and hunters are still being balanced. Little early to panic. Being powerful and being overpowered are two different things. No one likes being nerfed from being overpowered, but it has to happen eventually.

[Slickrock]

I'm sure the numbers aren't final though and I'm hoping it gets buffed later to be more in between the original and this nerf's numbers.

^

The pet pass is still unfinished and hunters are still being balanced. Little early to panic. Being powerful and being overpowered are two different things. No one likes being nerfed from being overpowered, but it has to happen eventually.

But a 60% reduction?...

Low damage takes much longer to get fixed, if it does at all.

If a KC is no better than two Arcane shots, something is seriously wrong. We are back to BM not having a special.

[Nakari]

In this case I think it's more that Arcane Shot is too powerful for it's focus cost, not just compared to Kill Command but to the other "signature shots" ES and CS as well. I predict a slight buff to KC/ES/CS in the follwing builds and slight nerf for ArS.

[Slickrock]

In this case I think it's more that Arcane Shot is too powerful for it's focus cost, not just compared to Kill Command but to the other "signature shots" ES and CS as well. I predict a slight buff to KC/ES/CS in the follwing builds and slight nerf for ArS.

We'll see. I hate spending points to buff Arcane as a BM hunter, but that's what the current model would be.

edit...

Just played with the calculator, and a PVE BM hunter cannot avoid wasting some points in buffing KC that of the current build you wouldn't want to use.

so it would be something like this...

http://wowtal.com/#k=u2KW5HaE.a0o.hunter

A PVP BM hunter could take those wasted KC-only talents and put them in crouching-tiger.

Something like this.

http://wowtal.com/#k=tSPnBGaM.a0o.hunter

[Rikaku]

Maybe I'm optimistic, but I'm having no real huge differences on my BM from the changes. The only noticeable change is KC. And KC was going to be changed, I expected that from the start. When my pet was 2-shotting cata mobs down with just KC alone, I hardly expected them to go live with it. However, in my experience on the beta today, I don't see how we aren't still perfectly viable. Other than KC, I'm not seeing a huge reduction in numbers.

[Slickrock]

The only noticeable change is KC. And KC was going to be changed, I expected that from the start.

Adjustments are fine. But it's our special. They need to have it better than an Arcane spam. that's all.

[Rulah]

I agree. If KC is pointless then we can just make a macro to spam Arcane Shot when we have the focus, Cobra when we don't, and it's back to lame square 1.

[Lohuran]

But a 60% reduction?...

Low damage takes much longer to get fixed, if it does at all.

If a KC is no better than two Arcane shots, something is seriously wrong. We are back to BM not having a special.

Heh. 60% down from something that could possibly crit for 30k? Seems reasonable.
Also, I'm not good with numbers, so if anyone could tell me how [ 21% of RAP + 772.27 ] is 60% down from [ 53% of RAP + 839.42 ], that would be nice because it doesn't look that bad to me.

Owait! Now I see it. Kinda.

[Aleu]

Yeeeaaah. I kinda saw that one coming for BM. I was playing around with it on the Beta and it was quite OP. X) I'm not sure if I should be happy or sad on no MM changes... I really don't like raiding as BM and I don't want to switch back to Surv... D: I love MM.

[Slickrock]

But a 60% reduction?...

Low damage takes much longer to get fixed, if it does at all.

If a KC is no better than two Arcane shots, something is seriously wrong. We are back to BM not having a special.

Heh. 60% down from something that could possibly crit for 30k? Seems reasonable.
Also, I'm not good with numbers, so if anyone could tell me how [ 21% of RAP + 772.27 ] is 60% down from [ 53% of RAP + 839.42 ], that would be nice because it doesn't look that bad to me.

Owait! Now I see it. Kinda.

Comparing to Arcane....

# Kill Command now deals [ 21% of RAP + 772.27 ], down from [ 53% of RAP + 839.42 ]. 40 focus.
# Arcane Shot - An instant shot that causes weapon damage plus [ 19% of RAP + 252 ] as arcane damage. 25 focus.

If you factor in the potential buffs to each, (both in damage boosts and focus reductions) Arcane still holds it's own against KC, and it more friendly to spamming it, since it's easier to fit in a rotation.

Which means Arcane will be next on the chopping block, which will nerf all hunters.

What really needs to happen is that Chimera and Explosive need a boost, KC needs to be brought back up a bit, and Arcane toned down a bit. But you know it will be just the Arcane nerf.

[Rikaku]

The only noticeable change is KC. And KC was going to be changed, I expected that from the start.

Adjustments are fine. But it's our special. They need to have it better than an Arcane spam. that's all.

I agree it's our special and that it should be better. It will probably be continued to be tweaked, this is the first time it's been even adjusted.

All I was saying was though is that I never expected KC to make it live how it was and logically I don't see why anyone thought it would make it live as such. Regardless of whether its our special or not, 2-3 shotting a mob with a pet alone (with no input from the Hunter whatsoever beyond KC) isn't right in any regard. It was the fact that the pets were doing this sort of 2-3 shotting *by themselves* that caused the problem. The same would be done if it was a DK's ghoul or a Lock's demon.