A Thought on Beetles

[Rawr]

I'm not sure if this is weird to u guys but its weird to me to have 2 different pet types with the same ability. I think beetles should be Exotics and also have the Burrow ability like worms. Makes perfect sense................to everyone but MM and SRV hunters who Im sure are going to QQ about the suggestion.

[meunkin]

your sig is THE cutest

[Rawr]

your sig is THE cutest

[Ryai]

I'm not sure if this is weird to u guys but its weird to me to have 2 different pet types with the same ability. I think beetles should be Exotics and also have the Burrow ability like worms. Makes perfect sense................to everyone but MM and SRV hunters who Im sure are going to QQ about the suggestion.

I'm BM thru and thru, even on my MM hunters and sorry but no, it doesn't make sense. Why? Because Tallstriders and Foxes have the same ability.

Turtles and Beetles having the same ability of reducing damage by tucking into their shells/hardening their carapaces is not so far fetched. Not all beetles burrow and why would they have the Wormquake ability? It makes no sense; yes while some beetles burrow and dig, they don't exactly move earth like worms do. And besides, no Exotic yet has shared an Exotic ability. So why should Worms and Beetles?

And why should Beetles be exotic?

So you kinda made your own argument null and void if you were complaining about two pets sharing an ability; and then sharing worm ability with beetles >_>


If this is because you don't like worms- just don't use them. Yes they are the 'best' tenacity pet for BM, but that doesn't mean that Beetles/Turtles/Bears should be looked down upon. They just require as much micromanagement as other pets did when Bears/Crocolisks were the kings of AoE after the tenacity changes.


MD+glyph of MD+explosive trap+Multi shot = win-win.

[Gimlion]

Personally, I believe any and all silithid models/beasts (Wasps, beetles, ants, Tanks etc) if made tamable, should be exotic. They are intelligent creatures, much along the lines of the Nerubians (technically, they are distant relatives to eachother)... Just not quite as advanced...

[Rawr]

I'm not sure if this is weird to u guys but its weird to me to have 2 different pet types with the same ability. I think beetles should be Exotics and also have the Burrow ability like worms. Makes perfect sense................to everyone but MM and SRV hunters who Im sure are going to QQ about the suggestion.

I'm BM thru and thru, even on my MM hunters and sorry but no, it doesn't make sense. Why? Because Tallstriders and Foxes have the same ability.

So ur saying 2 different pets should have the same ability then? I think the old Tallstrider ability should have stayed the same (reduced chance to hit was cool), not sure why it was changed in the 1st place. And most beetles do burrow/dig, its normally how they reproduce, they burrow in the ground/wood/flesh of dead things to lay their eggs.

Edit: I said Burrow because it makes sense and because seeing as Blizz has run out of pet ability ideas (Fox/Tallstrider, Turtle/Beetle) I thought this would be an easy way to fix it.

[Raydex-of-the-dawn]

This is already the case with Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks

There are lots of cases of shared abilities, but only two pairs in the same talent tree:

Tenacity Beetle/Turtle
Cunning Wind Serpent/Dragonhawk

In my mind the latter is more a problem because they're already nearly the same, but your mileage may vary. It bothers me, too; in my mind beetles shouldn't be tenacity.

[Rawr]

This is already the case with Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks

There are lots of cases of shared abilities, but only two pairs in the same talent tree:

Tenacity Beetle/Turtle
Cunning Wind Serpent/Dragonhawk

In my mind the latter is more a problem because they're already nearly the same, but your mileage may vary. It bothers me, too; in my mind beetles shouldn't be tenacity.

Didn't realize Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks had the same ability (I dont really like either of them). But thats a good point, they should just change their tree, make one ferocity and one cunning in the case of the Wind Serpent/Dragonhawks and one tenacity and one cunning for the Beetle/Turtles.

[Ryai]

Personally, I believe any and all silithid models/beasts (Wasps, beetles, ants, Tanks etc) if made tamable, should be exotic. They are intelligent creatures, much along the lines of the Nerubians (technically, they are distant relatives to eachother)... Just not quite as advanced...

If they made Silithid Wasps exotic- the only tameable wasps would be Outlands model. This, is outrageous imo; and I am a BM hunter, so I can be outraged at such a ridiculous reasoning. Wasps are intelligent, period, but they are tameable by all matter of hunters live; Silithid wasps are no different.

And also they aren't that intelligent; Silithid are a Hive Mind sort of creatures. All Silithid seem to be 'one with the hive', meaning outside of a few cases, such as the Exotic Silithid Tanks/Reavers, most of them are dimwitted/dullwitted/dumb as a dog with a blanket on its head.

Now while yes some are along the lines of Nerubians; you're confusing them with the later mobs in An'Quijari; IE the exotic Brain bugs and reavers- along with the non tameable models.

I personally don't see why Beetles, Wasps and Ants should not be tameable by all; Silithid Reavers/Tanks on the other hand are on a different class- since Blizz has clearly shown with the classification of Brainbugs, that these are higher class Silithid, therefore more dangerous, therefore need a stronger willed hunter-> Ergo Beast Master only pets.

So ur saying 2 different pets should have the same ability then?

Yes.

Serpents, Raptors share Rend. Ravagers, Worms share DPS+ increase, etc etc. All pets seem to double up on Non Exotic abilities in some shape, fasion or form.

I think the old Tallstrider ability should have stayed the same (reduced chance to hit was cool), not sure why it was changed in the 1st place.

Because if Tallstriders were the only pet with a hit reduction; every hunter would roll a tallstrider as I am pretty sure the hit reduction did affect bosses... meaning, Tallstriders would be the pet hunters would be forced to bring to a raid- meaning another wolf/cat fiasco.

And most beetles do burrow/dig, its normally how they reproduce, they burrow in the ground/wood/flesh of dead things to lay their eggs. :geek:

Yes but that's not the same as worms; when one thinks of beetles they don't think of dirt and burrowing. When one thinks of a worm, they think of dirt and burrowing.

In my mind the latter is more a problem because they're already nearly the same, but your mileage may vary. It bothers me, too; in my mind beetles shouldn't be tenacity.

Strange, whenever I saw beetles/hoped for them to be tameable, I always saw them as a tenacity pet. Because well. They're like turtles. Fat and dumpy and an instant meat and shell shield, ready and rearing to go. Mean they don't really scream cunning or ferocity to be honest.


Edit: As you posted again before I could post.

Didn't realize Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks had the same ability (I dont really like either of them). But thats a good point, they should just change their tree, make one ferocity and one cunning in the case of the Wind Serpent/Dragonhawks and one tenacity and one cunning for the Beetle/Turtles. :geek:

No, no they shouldn't. Beetles are just fine where they are at; same with turtles. Perhaps Dragonhawks or Windserpents could be done to Ferocity, but again, cunning isn't so terrible for DPSing so it's not like it really matters <_>

[Raydex-of-the-dawn]

Didn't realize Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks had the same ability (I dont really like either of them). But thats a good point, they should just change their tree, make one ferocity and one cunning in the case of the Wind Serpent/Dragonhawks and one tenacity and one cunning for the Beetle/Turtles.

No, no they shouldn't. Beetles are just fine where they are at; same with turtles. Perhaps Dragonhawks or Windserpents could be done to Ferocity, but again, cunning isn't so terrible for DPSing so it's not like it really matters <_>

The problem is that they're EXACTLY THE SAME so it's redundant and lazy. Of course it matters, it's not all about damage. Dragonhawks and Wind Serpents even look almost the same, they're both legless, flying birdsnakes. The only difference is that one is a bit smaller and more birdy.

And in my mind, beetles aren't tenacious. Might just be me.

[Grogann]

i think beetles and turtles sharing this ability is a really good thing. it is the no.1 pet tanking/exteme soloing ability after all, better to spread it around a bit than to force everyone to have the same pet. blizz wasn't happy with the wolf situation in wrath and this is just another example of them fixing it. beetles are a good fit for this role anyway, and a nice contrast to the friendly turtles.

i don't mind the model of more than one pet family per ability at all actually. makes it easier to roll out new pet familys without any pesky testing/balancing.

[Rawr]

Didn't realize Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks had the same ability (I dont really like either of them). But thats a good point, they should just change their tree, make one ferocity and one cunning in the case of the Wind Serpent/Dragonhawks and one tenacity and one cunning for the Beetle/Turtles.

No, no they shouldn't. Beetles are just fine where they are at; same with turtles. Perhaps Dragonhawks or Windserpents could be done to Ferocity, but again, cunning isn't so terrible for DPSing so it's not like it really matters <_>

The problem is that they're EXACTLY THE SAME so it's redundant and lazy. Of course it matters, it's not all about damage. Dragonhawks and Wind Serpents even look almost the same, they're both legless, flying birdsnakes. The only difference is that one is a bit smaller and more birdy.

And in my mind, beetles aren't tenacious. Might just be me.

Thats what Im saying too, hey should be different like snakes and raptors, yes they have the same ability but they are in different trees. I want beetles to be like Cats/Spirit Beasts, if there in the same tree and have the same ability(s) then one should be exotic and have a Plus ability. There's no point to having 2 different pet Families if the only difference is the name.

[Gimlion]

Many people find the 'tortoise' model to be dull, boring, or ugly, and have found a new pet that does the same thing in a more appealing skin (imho). But, making them exotic forces MM and SV to be left with the boring Turtles again. And while I still think it makes sense for Silithid creatures to be exotic, I see blizzards reasoning on this one.

[Ryai]

The problem is that they're EXACTLY THE SAME so it's redundant and lazy. Of course it matters, it's not all about damage. Dragonhawks and Wind Serpents even look almost the same, they're both legless, flying birdsnakes. The only difference is that one is a bit smaller and more birdy.

And er... then who cares if they're sharing the same debuff, in the same tree and have basically the same looks then...? It's not redundant btw. If you didn't know, but Beast specials are still Elemental Based. Meaning a WS won't be able to affect NATURE IMMUNE mobs half the time, if that, while a Dragonhawk will be useless against FIRE IMMUNE. Don't believe me? Take a WS into ST and try out the spell against the dragonkin; it was evidently being resisted half the time.

So yeah, please, think before you all cry redundant.

Oh also; Snake spit for Armor reduction? It failed too. And before this snake spit was Nature damage. Ergo, pets sharing the same ability has reasoning because one mob may be immune to one pets ability, but it won't be immune chances are, to the other pets ability.

And in my mind, beetles aren't tenacious. Might just be me.

Yeah but as said having a NON TURTLE pet have the same imba damage reduction ability would be great for tenacity. As it's been said not everyone likes turtles; not everyone is gonna be able to get Terrorpene, and not everyone will like the changed Ghamoo-rah turtle.

So basically everyone wins in the end.

Thats what Im saying too, hey should be different like snakes and raptors, yes they have the same ability but they are in different trees. I want beetles to be like Cats/Spirit Beasts, if there in the same tree and have the same ability(s) then one should be exotic and have a Plus ability. There's no point to having 2 different pet Families if the only difference is the name.

Sorry but that's like saying Foxes need to be Exotic because they share an ability with Tallstriders, or vice versa.

Beetles are fine as they are, non exotic, with only Harden. I was quite pleased by Carapace on the PTR.

[Raydex-of-the-dawn]

The problem is that they're EXACTLY THE SAME so it's redundant and lazy. Of course it matters, it's not all about damage. Dragonhawks and Wind Serpents even look almost the same, they're both legless, flying birdsnakes. The only difference is that one is a bit smaller and more birdy.

And er... then who cares if they're sharing the same debuff, in the same tree and have basically the same looks then...? It's not redundant btw. If you didn't know, but Beast specials are still Elemental Based. Meaning a WS won't be able to affect NATURE IMMUNE mobs half the time, if that, while a Dragonhawk will be useless against FIRE IMMUNE. Don't believe me? Take a WS into ST and try out the spell against the dragonkin; it was evidently being resisted half the time.

So yeah, please, think before you all cry redundant.

Oh also; Snake spit for Armor reduction? It failed too. And before this snake spit was Nature damage. Ergo, pets sharing the same ability has reasoning because one mob may be immune to one pets ability, but it won't be immune chances are, to the other pets ability.

And in my mind, beetles aren't tenacious. Might just be me.

Yeah but as said having a NON TURTLE pet have the same imba damage reduction ability would be great for tenacity. As it's been said not everyone likes turtles; not everyone is gonna be able to get Terrorpene, and not everyone will like the changed Ghamoo-rah turtle.

So basically everyone wins in the end.

It's still redundant. It's one very small change, it's lazy and unneeded. Honestly, Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks are basically the same thing lore ignored. And in lore, 90% of wind serpents don't breathe lightning. It's completely unneeded to have both and it's a disadvantage to anyone who wants to keep both because they basically loose a stable slot buff-wise (which, for HARDCORE RAIDERS, matters). Not that any of the buffs matter out of soloing, seeing as that every raid has someone with the +magic damage buff.

And who brought up serpents? Their buff isn't shared with any other non-exotic cunning pet, so it doesn't bother me.

Yeah but as said having a NON TURTLE pet have the same imba damage reduction ability would be great for tenacity. As it's been said not everyone likes turtles; not everyone is gonna be able to get Terrorpene, and not everyone will like the changed Ghamoo-rah turtle.

So basically everyone wins in the end.

But before, you mentioned that if you didn't like worms, you could just deal and not use one and suffer the tanking consequences. Why do turtle-haters get special privilages, then?

[Calomel]

I don't want a turtle pet for a tank. I want my Beetle-tank! Quit peeing in my cheerios!

[cowmuflage]

Um you guys are thinking of qiraji not Silithids. Qiraji control the Silithid. Nerubians are in the same family as Qiraji and both came from Silithid. But the Silithid themselves are not smart at all. Maybe the brain bugs but reavers/beetles/wasps are not.

Oh and makeing Beetles extoic is stupid and basicly a big F you to us non Bm hunters. Its not like Bm hunters can't use non exotic pets......

[Raydex-of-the-dawn]

I don't actually care too much about beetles as exotics because it wouldn't make sense. I'm sort of hear to argue on a rather irrelevent subject.

[Ryai]

It's still redundant. It's one very small change, it's lazy and unneeded. Honestly, Wind Serpents and Dragonhawks are basically the same thing lore ignored. And in lore, 90% of wind serpents don't breathe lightning. It's completely unneeded to have both and it's a disadvantage to anyone who wants to keep both because they basically loose a stable slot buff-wise (which, for HARDCORE RAIDERS, matters).

There you kinda already answered yourself- outside of Lightning Breathing Wind Serpents. That can be answerred with It's Blizzard's game, they are gonna do what they wanna do with XX creature for XX attack. . But, back to hard core raiders; Do they honestly care about the creatures they raid with? Half the time they were just fine and dandy with mass taming the latest FotM pet. On hellscream it was always wolves, wolves wolves. Wolves. Wolves. Wolves wolves wolves[/i[. Everyone had to have the Tricolor wolf, the Ramparts wolf or the White Saber Worg. Everyone.

So if someone would pick up and abandon a pet- and these were hard core raiders too, mind you; and then just tame something else because everyone else had the exact same skin and oh I must have it too, do you honestly think they would care if they had to have a WS or a Dragonhawk?

Not that any of the buffs matter out of soloing, seeing as that every raid has someone with the +magic damage buff.

And there. See. Why should it matter.

And who brought up serpents? Their buff isn't shared with any other non-exotic cunning pet, so it doesn't bother me.

I was using it as an example whenever I brought it up.

But before, you mentioned that if you didn't like worms, you could just deal and not use one and suffer the tanking consequences. Why do turtle-haters get special privilages, then?

Jesus- Why should wolf haters get special privileges with with Devilsaurs? Oh I know, because Devilsaurs are Exotic and can have two abilities.

And there's absolutely no suffering. I am able to tank fine and dandy with a Ghost Hydra, aka a Crocolisk, and all it requires, as I said, is a bit of effort and the knowledge to not lay waste and plunder without spamming MD on pet; hell I still spam MD on my worm.

If Beetles were made EXOTIC TENACITY- they would have to have a second exotic ability. But, that's the problem, all exotics to date do NOT share their exotic abilities. So what would they get? Well outside of Harden, I don't know. What would feet a Beetle? A Hit reduction? But again that's silly, and it's not entirely useful, and again that would make it a go to pet because hey we have everything else in a raid but go get those hit reducing beetles, STAT.

For a EXOTIC CUNNING Beetle, again they would have to have a second ability. And it's not entirely certain they would be left with their damage reduction, as it might be seen as 'op' that a non tenacity pet can dish out hurt and reduce damage twice in a row, and then some. And again what would their special ability be? It wouldn't be a stam buff like Silithid, they already have it. It couldn't be a useful +5% stats, as Shale Spiders got that. Etc etc etc.

This is most likely WHY Beetles are NON Exotic with a simple harden their carapace move, much like the turtle's Shell Shield.

As I said Beetles are perfectly fine where they are; and this is coming from someone who almost worships worms for their Wormquake. If I can be happy with Beetles just having a harden move, why can't you? :/

I don't actually care too much about beetles as exotics because it wouldn't make sense. :D I'm sort of hear to argue on a rather irrelevent subject.

*facepalm*

You just lost brownie points.

[Rawr]

Wow, really? I state 1 opinion, count them 1. Ryai back off and stop with ur "matter-of-fact" attitude all I wanted was to state MY OPINION, I dont need ppl telling me MY OPINION is wrong, saying "oh thats a cool thought but I was thinking it should be like this.................." would have been better, and much nicer. cowmuflage this is the second time you've done this to me, I'm not saying "F you" to all other hunters, Im just saying that having 2 different pet types in the same tree with the same ability is lazy and that they should do what they did with Cats and Spirit Beasts. Do u ppl talk to ur friends face to face this way?