Dust cloud X Tailspin - totally unfair

[tuwek]

I dont remember if have post about this topic, but I write the message above in wow offical forum:

Dust cloud X Tailspin - totally unfair

Prelude
I started playing in TBC times, and my first pet was a tallstrider, Dodo. I did all the raids with this pet, many people laugh alot when saw my big chicken ... but my pet is mascot of the guild, my GM never blame me if I loose some DPS.
I was very happy about pets in cataclism, all ferocity pet done same damage, and pets have diferent habilities.

Problem
Now I am very sadly about tallstrider hability, I like 30% attack speed reduced, only 8 sec per minute? However the foxes have similar hability, up all time and no cooldown.
Tallstrider(Dust Cloud - 8 sec - 40 sec CD) x Fox(Tailspin 30 sec - 25 sec CD)

Proof
Tailspin FOX - Melee Range - Instant -25 sec cooldown
Your fox twirls its tail around, kicking up an obscuring cloud of dust, causing all enemies within 10 yards to have their melee and ranged attack speed reduced by 20% for 30 sec.

Dust Cloud TALLSTRIDER - Melee Range - Instant - 40 sec cooldown
Your tallstrider kicks up an obscuring cloud of dust, causing all enemies within 10 yards to have their melee and ranged attack speed reduced by 20% for 8 sec.


Please, any "blue post" can explain this?

Regards


Link to original post

[Rhyela]

I agree, and I've been wondering about this myself. I'm hoping that Blizz will take a look at some of these skills and work out a few of the kinks. Things like this, or the fact that some special abilities are "doubled up" in the same family (increased magic damage debuff being in Cunning tree only, etc.).

[tuwek]

I dont understand why people dont care about it. I know, alot people like fox style, tallstrider not is "sonic" friend. But, i am sadly, hunter not is balanced and I wanna use my Dodo in raids. For me, tallstrider is cool.
About Wind Serpent and Dragonhawk, I agree completely.

[Ryai]

I agree, and I've been wondering about this myself. I'm hoping that Blizz will take a look at some of these skills and work out a few of the kinks. Things like this, or the fact that some special abilities are "doubled up" in the same family (increased magic damage debuff being in Cunning tree only, etc.).

Who cares if some buffs/debuffs are doubled up? Ferocity has 3 doubles- Fox/Strider, SB/Cats, Wolves/Devilsaurs. Tenacity has Turtles and Beetles, and cunning has the spell debuffs. Cunning is also doubled up on snares, too.


Anyways if you're raiding/running with a Warrior, and he's tank, chances are you're never going to need Tailspin/Dust Cloud. Besides it's obvious Blizz has yet to finalize pets too, Foxes lack Charge afaik. Shale Spiders still do not have a second ability and they are exotics. And ontop of this, cunning pets can not learn the skill to lower dive/dash.

It's only been what, a month or so since the shattering and 2 weeks of Cata? There's a crapload of worse bugs that Blizzard is most likely intent on fixing, namely cut scenes, quests, well hopefully, along with pets spawning with only 5-7k hp.

[Novikova]

Who cares if some buffs/debuffs are doubled up? Ferocity has 3 doubles- Fox/Strider, SB/Cats, Wolves/Devilsaurs. Tenacity has Turtles and Beetles, and cunning has the spell debuffs. Cunning is also doubled up on snares, too.

... uh, the people who like the pet with the inferior ability? The Fox ability is way better. :/ The difference shouldn't be there. It's nice to have doubles so you're not locked into one so that's not my issue. I just think it's weird that fox and strider aren't nearly the same. I also <3 my beetle.

[Worba]

Yes. I don't mind that they "double up" certain abilities - can't all be snowflake pets after all - but to have the same thing within the same family except one has shorter duration and longer CD... that's just not right.

[Rhyela]

I care. Am I not allowed to care? Is that not enough reason for me to put my opinions out there? That I personally think it's silly to have the same debuff on two different pet families but in one skill tree? Is it wrong of me to feel that it would be better if one was in ferocity for raiding and another in cunning for everyday questing/PvP/etc.? Or, that it seems odd that two tenacity pets have a bleed damage increase debuff when that seems more useful in a raid scenario where you're not going to most likely be taking a tenacity pet, but a ferocity pet instead? Or heck, maybe put the shield-like ability on a cunning family for instances in PvP where your pet is getting focused down (and I have seen it happen)?

I never said this is something that I think Blizz should jump on right away, throwing all other bugs and glitches aside. I was simply putting it out there that I personally think it's weird for two pet families to have the same skill in the same tree, I have always felt it would be more beneficial to have them spread out a bit. That's my opinion. By no means is this anything that's game-breaking or going to ruin my day, it's more of a minor annoyance than anything.

On the other hand, I can see where it's nice to have them doubled up so that if you don't like turtles, you can get a beetle instead. Maybe I should have said to keep some doubled up but put that skill in another family, too. Who knows? I was just thinking out loud to myself.

[Ryai]

Who cares if some buffs/debuffs are doubled up? Ferocity has 3 doubles- Fox/Strider, SB/Cats, Wolves/Devilsaurs. Tenacity has Turtles and Beetles, and cunning has the spell debuffs. Cunning is also doubled up on snares, too.

... uh, the people who like the pet with the inferior ability? The Fox ability is way better. :/ The difference shouldn't be there. It's nice to have doubles so you're not locked into one so that's not my issue. I just think it's weird that fox and strider aren't nearly the same. I also <3 my beetle.

I think you misread what I said. Who cares about buffs/debuffs being doubled up =/= buffs/debuffs that are inferior to other spells. I never said that a gimped ability shouldn't be cared about, but I meant that obviously pets are still glitchy and not 100% done with missing/broken talents, broken spells and Shale Spiders still missing a second ability to go with their exotic ability.

And as I said Rhy, who cares, atm it's not game breaking, it's not game hurting, it's not really going to affect DPS. And most likely the very reason that all pets with doubled up skills are in the same family, with the 'serious' benifits, are kept in the same family is to prevent the 'Wolf Mentality/Cat Mentality' where as you don't get to use XX pet or XX pet because XX pet has better dps and has the same buff/debuff as XX pet so you use XX pet etc etc.

[Novikova]

I think you misread what I said. Who cares about buffs/debuffs being doubled up =/= buffs/debuffs that are inferior to other spells. I never said that a gimped ability shouldn't be cared about, but I meant that obviously pets are still glitchy and not 100% done with missing/broken talents, broken spells and Shale Spiders still missing a second ability to go with their exotic ability.

And as I said Rhy, who cares, atm it's not game breaking, it's not game hurting, it's not really going to affect DPS. And most likely the very reason that all pets with doubled up skills are in the same family, with the 'serious' benifits, are kept in the same family is to prevent the 'Wolf Mentality/Cat Mentality' where as you don't get to use XX pet or XX pet because XX pet has better dps and has the same buff/debuff as XX pet so you use XX pet etc etc.

Ah yeah, the old two conversations passing in the night thing. Whoops. Yeah, this expansion is definitely bugalicious. Phasing bugs keeping people from questing and things like that. Personally, I like doubled up skills because it lets me choose. Turtle or beetle? Wolf or devilsaur? Old Cliff Jumper always has a place in my stables and I'll likely level him up just because but.

I do hope Plainstriders are fixed along with many, many other things. Personally I hope we never go back to the 'wolf or cat or DIE' type thing. Sure, I have a wolf and a cat just because but...

[Lisaara]

I dont see the huge deal. They can BOTH have the same ability....however....I do agree that the striders need to be fixed and be equal to the fox.

[Slickrock4]

Fox nerf inc.

[Lisaara]

Fox nerf inc.

Always gotta be a downer.

I say Tallstrider buff inc.

[Comett]

Fox nerf inc.

I was thinking that same thing. XD

But anyway, good find, and I agree, it would be good to get chickens and foxies evened out. I think it's safe to say it was a technical overlooking rather than an intentional difference and should be fixed in a later patch.

[Wark]

1. I expect Tallstriders will have their debuff duration adjusted UP: near as I can tell, they're mimicking Thunder Clap/all the other identical physical slows. I believe we're meant to be able to keep those "raid style" debuffs up continuously (in perfect conditions), as non-hunters can, so it'd make no sense to make it a short-duration long-cooldown ability.

2. The bug is basically because when we went into Cata and all the pets got their ability makeovers, too much of the old ability code got imported. Note that Dust Cloud, the old Tallstrider ability, had an 8 second duration and 40 second cooldown.
2b. Pretty sure the diminishing return on Ravagers' Ravage is a "too much old code" problem again. DR is totally fair for a stun, but now that it's a non-damaging debuff... well.

In short, I'm optimistic that it'll get fixed to "buff" Tallstriders up; on the other hand with the grocery list of bugs we have to work with, I don't know how speedily it'll happen.

[Wassa]

Greetings fellow tallstrider lover. My story is the same as yours. I've also had Hahadori, my Strider Clutchmother, since she was tamable and she's the guild's unofficial mascot. My guild would even ask me where Hahadori was if I didn't bring her to raids.

Currently Dust Cloud has the same cooldown and duration as the old Dust Cloud, when it made mobs miss their next attack. It hasn't been changed yet. The same thing is seen with ravagers ability. Although it's no longer a stun it still has diminishing returns. Blizzard just needs to update these pets skills. It sucks, but I still will use a tallstrider over a fox anyday; although, I wish my tallstrider could dance like a fox, hehe.

[MaximumOverdrive]

Something I had noticed with the fox's tailspin tho, is that it's not up 100% of the time...I'll see it on the mob for a few secs before it goes away. Maybe it's just a bug that was with mine or something, but it was never up 100% of the time (even when the ability was on cd). I mostly just assumed it was only for a few attacks it stayed up before wearing off, but I dunno.

[tuwek]

My first tallstrider was white, from Barrens, but when I was near Ashenvale and ding 19 lvl, I meet Strider Clutchmother, since this time, Dodo is my oldest pet.
Dodo isn't my unique pet, I am pet addict. I got 25 slot stable full, I tamed all spirit beast and rares. Whatever the "last cool rare pet", or need change pet to use special hability or buff in raid, Dodo is my main pet.
I agree with various pets with same special hability, give us a more options. However blizz never give correct care with tallstrider, and Dust cloud is very usefull, I can explain why.

Thunder Clap
20 Rage
Instant - 6 sec cooldown
Requires Battle Stance, Defensive Stance
Blasts enemies within 8 yards for 302 damage, and increases the time between their attacks by 20% for 30 sec. Damage increased by attack power.

So, Thunder Clap do damage and it can broken all CC around, but Dust cloud apply buff without any damage.

But, nobody give feedback in wow official forum, any "blue" or normal.