Pet loyalty

[Comett]

In short, I was wondering on your stance on "pet loyalty".

For those who need a recap, here we go:
Back a good few years ago, there were 6 levels of loyalty a newly tamed pet would have to go through before it would be 100% efficient. I can't remember the exact names off-hand, but 6 was something like "Rebellious" and 1 was "Best friend". I remember that bumbling my way through my hunter, loyalty did not take that long to gain while questing or dungeoning (perhaps 2-3 levels of loyalty per dungeon), and when your pet was a "Best friend" I think it perhaps did more damage?

When Blizzard removed this I was very, very sad to see it go. I guess in a small way I'm pumping to see if it could be returned again... I'm not holding out hopes here. One of the major reasons I bonded with my main pet, Karma, the most, was because he was my "best friend" and I couldn't even think of ditching him for another model. I also LOVE the idea that it shows that hunters and pets are separate beings as such. However I'm honestly uncertain as to why it was removed in the first place: if anyone knows, it would be awesome if you could share it. Why?

a) If you're hardcore and really don't play a hunter for the "squee pets" bit, perhaps the damage improvement could be removed and it could purely be of aesthetic benefit, *or* (this may have been what it was originally) disloyal pets require more feeding than loyal ones? So essentially it doesn't matter if you go grab a new wolf before a raid, as it will perform just as well - you'll just need to feed it more often (or spam mend pet on it, best glyph ever).
b) People are already crying out that pet levelling should be removed (which I'm against but that's another story). Pets are quickly becoming like warlock minions (though we have more choice lol), the point being they're becoming more and more like utility+ instead of hunter companion. When I started playing the game, I think the #1 thing that kept me going was finally getting my pet via taming quest, and then he started getting loyal to me, and by the time he became my "best friend" I was hooked. Now, hunters start off with pets - which is great, so much easier! - but I don't think they really experience the unique part of being a hunter. It's literally just *ding level 10, to trainer, learn tame beast*. Maybe I'm showing my grumpy old colours from Vanilla but that doesn't entirely sit well with me
c) It gives me a good reason to go BM and play with all my exotic pets again. "Ignore my DPS I have to level pet loyalty gais 8D"

As I said, I honestly don't know why it was removed but... I can't really see the harm of it as a simple game mechanic to keep oldies like me happy and the spirit of the hunter alive for those who enjoy the lore of the game also? Honestly the BIGGEST problem I can see from it is some hardcore raiders going "QQ my wolf needs to be fed more" in which case they should stick a sock in it or buy the mend pet glyph or reroll.

SO. What is everyone else's thoughts on this? :3 Yay or nay?

[Shinryu Masaki]

It's gone and should never come back. It was too complicated anyway, and most people didn't even know it existed in the first place. Took too much time to reach it, and if you just tamed the pet then you couldn't even use it right off the bat in a raid. The old pet system from vanilla was clunky and very user unfriendly.

[Comett]

Well, I'm not really proposing that the old system from vanilla be re-implemented, but thanks anyhow for the comment.

[Setanta]

I remember rebellious pets as having a high chance of potentially "running away" if steps weren't taken to improve it's loyalty. Part of me wants to say that like so many other aspects of the game loyalty was removed in a 'dumbing down' move.

Besides, if the old system were still in effect, and anything like reality, my transparent wolf Ciani (Lone Hunter) would always be rebellious no matter how much I worked on her loyalty...just like her namesake

[Lisaara]

Too complex and dont want it.

[Comett]

Wow, I didn't realise it received so much hate from the hunter community.

I don't think it's complex at all - I agree with the "removed in the dumbing down process" comment - and think it's a pity. One of those few mechanics I really enjoyed.

[Lisaara]

So....lets say this.

You just tamed Loque'nahak after god knows how many months.

You had a hard time improving its loyalty cause that system was craptastically complex.

It runs away.

You still want this in place?

[Comett]

Yes, I'm not saying re-instating the old loyalty would be a good idea at all. Using old code is silly. Nor am I saying that having a system that increased the likelihood of pets running away is a good idea. x)

As I said in my OP, I just loved the idea of pets "bonding" to their hunter. I think it would be a really neat re-addition without the inclusion of too many negative side effects (or even positive ones really, to make it an equal ground). Just an aesthetic or very minor generalised benefit. But I typed all that up in my main post, so there's not much point repeating that.

[Lisaara]

Ah well....thats what I have PetEmote for. x3 If he's happy, he's loyal to me. If he's pissed at me, he's snarling and wanting to eat me.

[Comett]

Fair enough. x)

[Lisaara]

Hehe. If you dont have it, i recommend getting it and the custom emotes Teigan makes. It's very awesome and if you're down, your pet can cheer you up.

[Eldanalune]

The Pet Loyalty ran its course. As it is there are already too many things to worry about for us. Having to worry about our pet's loyalty falling during a run is the last thing we need. If its gone, please let it stay gone.

People are already crying out that pet levelling should be removed (which I'm against but that's another story). Pets are quickly becoming like warlock minions (though we have more choice lol), the point being they're becoming more and more like utility+ instead of hunter companion.

I wouldn't be opposed to the pet leveling going away. That has run its course as well. And as for utility...? What game have you been playing? Any pet I have had has ALWAYS been my loyal companion. There has NEVER been a time I have thought of it as utility. And I think a good deal of the hunters in this forum might agree with me.

[Setanta]

I can understand the sentiment Comett, really I can. But, it didn't make me sad when they dumped it. Problem is, I don't know that there really is a way to code it to just have positive connotations anymore. I suppose from a rp point of view there is probably a way you could go about giving the perception that your pets are gaining loyalty, or rather gaining trust in you.

and like taluwen said, using petemote with teigan's customs make it seem like there is a degree of loyalty.

[Comett]

To me, the pet emote customs - while sweet and all - are of lesser value than my knowledge in my head that I've been playing with the pet for however many years so of course he's tame. xD I'm really not interested, not keen on the emote spam etc.

Ah well, my bad for posting this. I thought it was a neat idea that that perhaps other people missed it also. Obviously I'm just weird, haha.

[Arisia]

Not putting down your feelings about it at all, as in a way I understand what you mean-- when I walk out and tame a pet, having it instantly willing to fight to it's utmost and even die for me seems a bit, well, unrealistic, as it were...

And yet, as I depend on my pet to keep me alive from the second I tame it, I really do not want the old way pet loyalty worked back, trust me -- the constant fear that I might lose a pat I spent days and in some cases weeks trying to tame was unnerving.

Personally, I tend to feel that my pets and my hunters (yes, HunterS; I have several LOL) bond as the pet is leveled. In my own mind, the pet works for me when I first tame it, but as we get to know one another, he or she does it without being reminded by the hunter, doing what it does because it WANTS to do it, rather than because I tell it to do so... laying down his or her life for me because they love me rather than whatever binding that the tame forces on a new pet.

However you personally "see" a tame, I figure that the way it "forces" a pet to become yours is VERY strong at first; in my mind this replaces the growing loyalty we used to see as we fed, healed and used our pet... yes, it means it is how you personally see it rather than a game mechanic, but I also figure that if you, like me, feel your pet has a personality, its not much of a stretch. Imagining that as time goes on that that compulsion is replaced with real loyalty works without having the worrisome penalty of possibly losing a hard won pet just because you run out of food after some really bade fights that make you revive your pet over and over until the numerical loyalty it has earned is erased. ;D

[Vephriel]

It was a lovely flavor detail that I did enjoy for what it suggested, however the implementation and penalties from it were clunky and unnecessary. I could say it would be cool to have it brought back as just a novelty thing, with no real effect, but then there wouldn't be much point to it anyways.

I know it's easy to look back on some of the Vanilla features through rose coloured glasses, but I think the streamlining of the whole Hunter/Pet relationship is better off now than it was previously. I remember how confusing it was when I first started playing the game that I had to pay attention to my pet's loyalty level (lest it run away), feeding it constantly to keep the loyalty and damage at a premium, then having to figure out what mobs came with certain abilities that you had to go out and tame and then battle with until you learned it, which you could then teach to your pet....there were just a lot of details that made the entire process rather convoluted.

I'm also a Pet Emote user and I find the happiness dependent reactions from that perfectly adequate at fleshing out my pet's character.

[Lisaara]

And just for the record, the PetEmote doesnt spam at all. It goes off every once in awhile.

[Comett]

Nicely said Arisia. ^^ I think we see our pets in a similar way, lol. It's unrealistic that a pet would magically love to protect you the second after it's stopped mauling your face off via the hunter's taming spell.

Oh well. It's all a "roleplay" thing in my head I suppose. I loved the idea of pet loyalty revamped but I am seemingly one in few so I'm happy enough to stick to the knowledge in my mind that pet x is happy to hunt with me.

Veph: Thank you. Novelty is really all I was aiming for, but... I think people have misread that intention. Lol.

Taluwen: Not too sure what I've said or done recently, if I've said anything offensive I am sorry but I am constantly feeling the need to act defensive to a lot of what you're posting. I don't want to be argumentative and it's happening in a few threads now. I realise I'm very sensitive about this sort of thing and just want to clear the air. Pet emote is something I'm not interested in, but thank you.

[Lisaara]

Taluwen: Not too sure what I've said or done recently, if I've said anything offensive I am sorry but I am constantly feeling the need to act defensive to a lot of what you're posting. I don't want to be argumentative and it's happening in a few threads now. I realise I'm very sensitive about this sort of thing and just want to clear the air. Pet emote is something I'm not interested in, but thank you.

Naw. You're fine. Just stating my two cents and getting it straightened about PetEmote. You seemed to be saying you didn't like it cause it was spammy when it's not really spammy at all. I just wanted to clarify that it's not spammy, least not to me. It goes off at random. But I'm sure you have other reasons for not liking it. I like it lots cause it's really cheered me up on days I just wanted to sit down and cry.

For example: I found out my co-worker was killed in an auto wreck. I was a mess. I had my white lion out(Cairne) on Taluwen. I was in undercity, which didnt help the depressive mood, while waiting for a que. All of a sudden i see this come up:
"Cairne raises up on his hind legs, putting his paws on his mistresses shoulders, and licks her face."

It made me smile when I needed it most.

[Comett]

That's sweet

I suppose the main reason I'm against it would be that... my pets have set personalities. And I'd be all "D:!!!!" if, for example, my Tol'vir kitty Flint suddenly become a smoochy fluffball on me. Lol. But admittedly I don't know much about it. I haven't seen it used often on my server... perhaps I'll test it out on my sacrificial Goblin hunter and see if I like it.