Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

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Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ellaran »

So I'm going through the Blasted Lands, doing the new stuff, and I got to the two Belf bloodmages in the ogre cave. Something clicked in my mind, it met my previous ideas for the demon hunter (one of my favorite "classes") being playable, and I thought "You know, it would be awesome if these became two new classes for the next expansion".

I'll cover the demon hunter first since I've thought about it more. Lore-wise, they're in pretty large numbers from when Illidan was training up his troops, and we have two races, one for each faction, that could be one: Night elves (the original DH's) and Blood Elves. Now, after Illidan was slain, what happened to those DH's? It was never explained, but they could have remained in Outland, eking out an existence, but things have gotten so bad that they realize they need to align with their respective factions to survive. They could start at level 1 as new recruits (or reached the age that they can start to train, being born in Outland), or at a higher level, maybe lower than Death Knights. This part's the trickest to figure out honestly.

As for play style, DH's would be Warrior/Rogue with a touch of Warlock in the mix. They'd wear cloth armor, maybe leather at the most, because they prefer their agility, grace and skill to keep from being injured instead of bulky armor (and the runes they paint on their bodies could also have a damage-lessening effect, along with other effects, basically serving as the chest armor for a DH). Most of their damage would be physical, with the option through talents and abilities to augment their weapons with fire and/or shadow. They would have mana, but not to the extent other mana classes do, and most of their abilities would operate on cooldowns (off the global and on their own individual cooldowns), with only the abilites that use fire and shadow using mana. DH's main stats would be Agility, Strength, dodge, parry and hit, relying on high dodge and parry along with their runes to avoid and mitigate damage. For the talent trees: one would focus on their physical damage and skills; one would augment their fire and shadow; one would increase survivability and secondary stats. For weapons, their preferred would be the warglaives, which could be adjusted to be two-handed or dual wield by combining and separating (two-handed would be better for the more cautious and precise types, dual wield would be for the reckless and damaging types). Various abilities could be: powerful strike with both weapons causing heavy damage and bleeding; 20% of damage dealt is also dealt as fire or shadow, or 10% of both at the same time; panic skills to increase dodge and parry for a certain time; augments to the runic armor (more damage mitigation, some elemental resistance, increased mana regen).

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And now to the Bloodmage. Because of it's reputation and stigma, only a few races would practice it (for example: Humans, Worgen, and Dwarves on Alliance side; Blood Elves, Trolls, and Forsaken on Horde side). Though I just started thinking about it, it would be a neat class to play, since it revolves around the manipulation of blood, both yours and others, which opens a lot of possibilities.

The resource Bloodmages would use would be (of course) Blood, and it would work like this: it slowly regenerates, like Energy and Focus, but at a slower rate. However, you have the ability to extract the blood of enemies to refill your Blood, which also does damage and is one of the main attacks for the Bloodmage. In turn, you use this Blood to power your spells and abilities. Firing Bloodbolts, throwing Blood Bombs, draining the blood of one enemy and firing it at another at the same time, and manipulating the blood inside your foe to debilitating and damaging effect.

For example, you could raise the temperature of a target's blood, burning him from the inside out. Or you could chill the target's blood, slowing and freezing him to death. You could form bubbles in the blood to stun a foe, or make their blood burst out of his body in an AoE that hurts him and surrounding foes. And in emergencies you can use Blood to heal yourself a bit. You could also cause a slain foe's blood to spread from his body in a puddle that works against other foes, slowing or DoTing similar to a Hunter's traps. At high levels you could even make a Blood Golem, similar to the Necromancer's of Diablo II, with its own abilities and nuances with the Bloodmage.

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So, there's my ideas. What'cha think? :)

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Lisaara »

Well...Demon Hunter? Yes.

Bloodmage? No. We have DKs that play in blood. I don't think we need another. Plus Warlocks cover a lot of that too.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ebonrook »

While I like the ideas, I'm kinda thinking that the next hero class we get is one that is capable of healing and ranged DPS – to counteract the Death Knights of WotLK. A bloodmage, perhaps, could be used for healing if you tweak it right, but I don't forsee that being a possibility.
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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ellaran »

Taluwen wrote:Well...Demon Hunter? Yes.

Bloodmage? No. We have DKs that play in blood. I don't think we need another. Plus Warlocks cover a lot of that too.
A lot of the classes have overlaps, it's what you do with the overlapped parts for each one that counts. Besides, with warlocks you just cast curses, bloodmages would use the body directly for offense and defense.
Ebonrook wrote:While I like the ideas, I'm kinda thinking that the next hero class we get is one that is capable of healing and ranged DPS – to counteract the Death Knights of WotLK. A bloodmage, perhaps, could be used for healing if you tweak it right, but I don't forsee that being a possibility.
Actually, that's very possible. A bloodmage can accelerate the healing factor, mending damaged tissue at a much faster rate, so they could have a healing aspect to them.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Lisaara »

Ellaran wrote:
Taluwen wrote:Well...Demon Hunter? Yes.

Bloodmage? No. We have DKs that play in blood. I don't think we need another. Plus Warlocks cover a lot of that too.
A lot of the classes have overlaps, it's what you do with the overlapped parts for each one that counts. Besides, with warlocks you just cast curses, bloodmages would use the body directly for offense and defense.
Ebonrook wrote:While I like the ideas, I'm kinda thinking that the next hero class we get is one that is capable of healing and ranged DPS – to counteract the Death Knights of WotLK. A bloodmage, perhaps, could be used for healing if you tweak it right, but I don't forsee that being a possibility.
Actually, that's very possible. A bloodmage can accelerate the healing factor, mending damaged tissue at a much faster rate, so they could have a healing aspect to them.
Isnt that what warriors do already? they're meatshields. Oh and Paladins. there's the offense and defense of the body.

I've never heard of a blood mage that can heal. that seems like a rip from the Undead racial, as they devour a body to regenerate.

So my opinion still stands....Blood Mage is already there in wow in several different classes, spread out, and would be too OP and complex to put into the game. The only Blood Mages that exist, as far as i'm aware, are the vampire-creatures and they're only blood elves/high elves of sorts....and are technically dead. So....yeah....

Now a demon hunter would be kick ass. They're in wow, especially in Warcraft pretty heavily, mostly night elves but I can see Night Elves teaching other races to be such. I think there were troll demon hunters(or in their verse...Shadow Hunters....same difference).

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ellaran »

Taluwen wrote: Isnt that what warriors do already? they're meatshields. Oh and Paladins. there's the offense and defense of the body.

I've never heard of a blood mage that can heal. that seems like a rip from the Undead racial, as they devour a body to regenerate.

So my opinion still stands....Blood Mage is already there in wow in several different classes, spread out, and would be too OP and complex to put into the game. The only Blood Mages that exist, as far as i'm aware, are the vampire-creatures and they're only blood elves/high elves of sorts....and are technically dead. So....yeah....

Now a demon hunter would be kick ass. They're in wow, especially in Warcraft pretty heavily, mostly night elves but I can see Night Elves teaching other races to be such. I think there were troll demon hunters(or in their verse...Shadow Hunters....same difference).
You'd use your blood to heal, giving it to the target and healing them. You could also give someone's blood special properties, like heating it so that they do fire damage to enemies that hit them, or making it poisonous to do nature damage, or thickening it for a defense boost.

Bloodmages have been in the game for a while. Remember the two that were in the Blasted Lands, Bloodmage Lynnore and Bloodmage Drazial? They have a new quest chain now. And there's the Bloodmages in Deadmines which fire Bloodbolts and created zones where everyone in them take and do 25% more damage (which could be another player Bloodmage ability).

In-game for the Demon Hunters, the Night Elves and Blood Elves (the ones at the Black Temple) would be the default races. Blizz could probably have at least one more race for each side, Humans and Orcs would probably be best since in lore humans have had a few DH's and orcs drank demon blood.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Lisaara »

Ellaran wrote:
Taluwen wrote: Isnt that what warriors do already? they're meatshields. Oh and Paladins. there's the offense and defense of the body.

I've never heard of a blood mage that can heal. that seems like a rip from the Undead racial, as they devour a body to regenerate.

So my opinion still stands....Blood Mage is already there in wow in several different classes, spread out, and would be too OP and complex to put into the game. The only Blood Mages that exist, as far as i'm aware, are the vampire-creatures and they're only blood elves/high elves of sorts....and are technically dead. So....yeah....

Now a demon hunter would be kick ass. They're in wow, especially in Warcraft pretty heavily, mostly night elves but I can see Night Elves teaching other races to be such. I think there were troll demon hunters(or in their verse...Shadow Hunters....same difference).
You'd use your blood to heal, giving it to the target and healing them. You could also give someone's blood special properties, like heating it so that they do fire damage to enemies that hit them, or making it poisonous to do nature damage, or thickening it for a defense boost.

Bloodmages have been in the game for a while. Remember the two that were in the Blasted Lands, Bloodmage Lynnore and Bloodmage Drazial? They have a new quest chain now. And there's the Bloodmages in Deadmines which fire Bloodbolts and created zones where everyone in them take and do 25% more damage (which could be another player Bloodmage ability).
Oh snap....I forgot about them. They never were majorly important and I don't recall questing much in those areas.

Hmm.....I may have to rethink my opinion then.....they'd have to do some major tweaking with this.

Well I suppose long as we dont have to look like those vampires, we'll be good. (No more Twilight guilds on Moon Guard, for the love of god.....)

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ellaran »

Taluwen wrote: Oh snap....I forgot about them. They never were majorly important and I don't recall questing much in those areas.

Hmm.....I may have to rethink my opinion then.....they'd have to do some major tweaking with this.

Well I suppose long as we dont have to look like those vampires, we'll be good. (No more Twilight guilds on Moon Guard, for the love of god.....)
Nope, they're regular Blood Elves, just using blood magic.

Questing more in Blasted Lands, and the Bloodwash Naga on the east coast also use Blood magic as well. The Barbarians have "Bloodwash", which increases their attack speed and casting speed by 30% for a time, and the Enchantresses fire Bloodbolts that slow your movement speed.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Lisaara »

Ellaran wrote:
Taluwen wrote: Oh snap....I forgot about them. They never were majorly important and I don't recall questing much in those areas.

Hmm.....I may have to rethink my opinion then.....they'd have to do some major tweaking with this.

Well I suppose long as we dont have to look like those vampires, we'll be good. (No more Twilight guilds on Moon Guard, for the love of god.....)
Nope, they're regular Blood Elves, just using blood magic.

Questing more in Blasted Lands, and the Bloodwash Naga on the east coast also use Blood magic as well. The Barbarians have "Bloodwash", which increases their attack speed and casting speed by 30% for a time, and the Enchantresses fire Bloodbolts that slow your movement speed.
Hmm....now I'm seeing potential...but we'd have to fix the mages and bloodmages so they wouldnt be so identical. it can be done, I'm sure but....it'll take time.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ellaran »

There's always the fine-tuning :D But some mechanics are already available, like how Blood could work, and how you can use your enemies' blood to attack, damaging them by first pulling it out and then attacking with it, or just pulling it out to replenish your Blood. A good AoE could be Blood Nova, where you make the foe's blood erupt from their body damaging them and everyone around them, it would do less damage than Living Bomb and the warlock one, but it would be instant and able to use again sooner.

The talent trees could be: one that augments the abilities that use enemy blood; one that augments DPS abilities that use your supply of Blood; and one that enhances your Blood healing with buffs and such.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by bluddy »

I could see the Bloodmage as a high burting damage ranged attacker...not working with any resource but sacrificing it's own health
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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Lisaara »

Ellaran wrote:There's always the fine-tuning :D But some mechanics are already available, like how Blood could work, and how you can use your enemies' blood to attack, damaging them by first pulling it out and then attacking with it, or just pulling it out to replenish your Blood. A good AoE could be Blood Nova, where you make the foe's blood erupt from their body damaging them and everyone around them, it would do less damage than Living Bomb and the warlock one, but it would be instant and able to use again sooner.

The talent trees could be: one that augments the abilities that use enemy blood; one that augments DPS abilities that use your supply of Blood; and one that enhances your Blood healing with buffs and such.
Think they'd be able to summon blood beasts then?

Cause if so, they could have a spec to specialize in blood beasts like a hunters BM or a warlocks Demo.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ellaran »

Taluwen wrote: Think they'd be able to summon blood beasts then?

Cause if so, they could have a spec to specialize in blood beasts like a hunters BM or a warlocks Demo.
Oh yes, most definitely. I think the Blood Beast/Golem would be for the spec that enhances your Blood abilities (the second one), as it could make enemies more vulnerable to your attacks and drain them of their blood and give it to you, kind of like the Shadowfiend, but it would be a permanent pet and the gain wouldn't be nearly as much to keep the balance.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Andine »

If we're thinking about new classes, we need to think about ones that would have unique playstyle. There's not much uniqueness we can find in a Blood Mage (it's a warlock/mage/priest/DK most of the time), but Demon Hunters do have some chance for unique gameplay, even if it's at the bottom of my personal list.
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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Gimlion »

I still think I'd love to see a straight up Ranger class. xD Like a hunter-Rogue Hybrid, only without pets. I actually think that could be implemented in a Shadow/Demon Hunter class, where they can either spec for a phys. Melee, Phys. ranged (like a MM), or choose talents carefully in the Shadow/Fire augmented tree to either be Spell-dmg Melee, or Spell-Dmg Archer, kinda like SV, only more shadow oriented.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Moore »

I don't see how WoW has any more room for another Hero Class.

Like the rest of the "Hero" classes are just splitting hairs between classes we have now. o.o

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ryai »

Tbh it feels like you didn't read up on Blood Mages.
Powerful magic-wielding heroes of the blood elves.

A mystical hero, blood mages are adept at controlling magic and ranged assault. While they were still members of the Alliance, the blood elves began to turn to the darkest parts of magic, abandoning the water and frost spells of the Kirin Tor for the fire and heat of what some people fear to be demonic magic.[1]

Many of the stoic high elves, reeling from the loss of their ancient homeland, Quel'Thalas, have given in to their hatred and despair and embraced the dark side of their magical natures. Calling themselves "blood elves", these cold hearted refugees seek to expand their remaining magical powers at any cost — even if it means courting the infernal powers of the Burning Legion. Though still loyal to the Alliance, the blood elves' passions will lead them not only to the highest pinnacles of power, but to the darkest depths of madness.[2]

The most famous and the first of the blood mages was the blood elf Hero Kael'thas. He commanded the blood elves in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne's human campaign, leading them out of the Alliance and into Illidan's service.

Blood mages have many abilities among them are: Spell Shadow Cripple.png [Banish], Spell Fire SelfDestruct.png [Flamestrike], the use of [Verdant Sphere]s and summon Phoenix.
They're basically Warlocks. That sparkle. They're not healers and they don't use blood in the way that you're refering to. The Blood Mage/Blood user you're speaking of from Blasted Lands is most likely a small sect of near cultist idiots and you should have also realized are no better, nay possibly worse than warlocks, if you did the quest chain involving the poor stupid Demon Hunter.

And for Demon Hunters...? Eh no, tbh I don't think it'd really be a hero class. We have enough classes as it is and Blizzard knows if they added anymore, they would have to bump the amount of characters you could have per account AND per server.
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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Gimlion »

Blizz has already said they intend on going from Races to A Hero Class every expansion. Since we got races this xpac, I almost guarantee we will see a new class next xpac.

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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Mustafah »

About a new class we are gonna need something new I like the bloodmages basiclly but I think there cant be such class in WoW(we have warlock and dk already) so my other option is a new kind of dps - healing class but maybe taking their powers from the emerald dream, something druid like, but caster.
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Re: Bloodmages and Demon Hunters: good for new classes?

Unread post by Ellaran »

Ryai wrote:Tbh it feels like you didn't read up on Blood Mages.
Powerful magic-wielding heroes of the blood elves.

A mystical hero, blood mages are adept at controlling magic and ranged assault. While they were still members of the Alliance, the blood elves began to turn to the darkest parts of magic, abandoning the water and frost spells of the Kirin Tor for the fire and heat of what some people fear to be demonic magic.[1]

Many of the stoic high elves, reeling from the loss of their ancient homeland, Quel'Thalas, have given in to their hatred and despair and embraced the dark side of their magical natures. Calling themselves "blood elves", these cold hearted refugees seek to expand their remaining magical powers at any cost — even if it means courting the infernal powers of the Burning Legion. Though still loyal to the Alliance, the blood elves' passions will lead them not only to the highest pinnacles of power, but to the darkest depths of madness.[2]

The most famous and the first of the blood mages was the blood elf Hero Kael'thas. He commanded the blood elves in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne's human campaign, leading them out of the Alliance and into Illidan's service.

Blood mages have many abilities among them are: Spell Shadow Cripple.png [Banish], Spell Fire SelfDestruct.png [Flamestrike], the use of [Verdant Sphere]s and summon Phoenix.
They're basically Warlocks. That sparkle. They're not healers and they don't use blood in the way that you're refering to. The Blood Mage/Blood user you're speaking of from Blasted Lands is most likely a small sect of near cultist idiots and you should have also realized are no better, nay possibly worse than warlocks, if you did the quest chain involving the poor stupid Demon Hunter.

And for Demon Hunters...? Eh no, tbh I don't think it'd really be a hero class. We have enough classes as it is and Blizzard knows if they added anymore, they would have to bump the amount of characters you could have per account AND per server.
That's for WarCraft III and TFT, everything that uses Blood magic in WoW is completely different in terms of spells and abilities. And I love how people just automatically assume that something is exactly like something else because of one word or a kinda-sorta "feel" ("Bloodmage... blood... blood death knight... OMG WE CAN'T HAVE TWO THINGS WITH 'BLOOD' IN THEIR NAMES!!"). Blood DK's are merely one talent tree choice that doesn't deal with blood itself the way a Bloodmage does, and Warlocks use demonic magic to cast curses on people, really different from actually using and manipulating the person's blood itself.

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