Puppy build Hunter changes

[Slickrock]

The only noticeable change is KC. And KC was going to be changed, I expected that from the start.

Adjustments are fine. But it's our special. They need to have it better than an Arcane spam. that's all.

I agree it's our special and that it should be better. It will probably be continued to be tweaked, this is the first time it's been even adjusted.

All I was saying was though is that I never expected KC to make it live how it was and logically I don't see why anyone thought it would make it live as such. Regardless of whether its our special or not, 2-3 shotting a mob with a pet alone (with no input from the Hunter whatsoever beyond KC) isn't right in any regard. It was the fact that the pets were doing this sort of 2-3 shotting *by themselves* that caused the problem. The same would be done if it was a DK's ghoul or a Lock's demon.

Yes, it did need adjustment.. but.. I see one problem with your reasoning. You say the PET should not be doing that kind of damage. That's fine for MM and SV, since they have Chimera and Explosive. What does BM have? KC. Oh wait...

It's back to the issue of what is the design of BM supposed to be? Is KC the signature shot for BM? if so, then we have a problem if KC is supposed to be weaker than other hunter shots.

Need design clarification from Blizz.

[Rikaku]

Yes, it did need adjustment.. but.. I see one problem with your reasoning. You say the PET should not be doing that kind of damage. That's fine for MM and SV, since they have Chimera and Explosive. What does BM have? KC. Oh wait...

It's back to the issue of what is the design of BM supposed to be? Is KC the signature shot for BM? if so, then we have a problem if KC is supposed to be weaker than other hunter shots.

Need design clarification from Blizz.

And I say the PET shouldn't be doing that damage from ONE ability with ZERO command from the Hunter as a BM Hunter. Let me explain in depth to what I mean, cause it sounds like you're misinterpreting me. I am not talking about from a MM/SV perspective, now or ever, because I never play those specs lol

BM has Beastial Wrath & Exotics. Not just KC. KC is only buffed by BM, it's shared by the other specs. I dunno if it should be considered our "signature" shot for the following reason: If a Hunter commands the pet the KC, it's 100% the pet.

I'm not saying the pet shouldn't do high damage, as BM they should. I'm saying KC shouldn't have the pet do that high of damage by itself with no input from the Hunter.

I hit KC 2 times, the mob dies. The pet did all the damage and I end up not getting any EXP or any loot because I didn't contribute any damage to the mob. I'm saying THAT *is* too much damage for one ability for a pet to be doing by itself. No claw. No bite. Just KC.

Pets shouldn't be able to just 2 shot a mob 3 levels above them without having me at least fire a shot at it and not just to 'tag' it. That is the reason KC got nerfed. Pets were doing what one player could do with just 2 button presses, and they were doing it faster than a player.

But we can both agree on that BM needs design clarification.

[Protego]

Doesn't surprise me that Kill Command got decreased. I'm curious about the numbers currently in the Cataclysm beta. Is Beast Mastery still raid-viable? Exotic pets gotta get their love in Cataclysm. Thank you very much.

[Rikaku]

Doesn't surprise me that Kill Command got decreased. I'm curious about the numbers currently in the Cataclysm beta. Is Beast Mastery still raid-viable? Exotic pets gotta get their love in Cataclysm. Thank you very much.

The realms are still down, but as soon as they come up, I will be happily testing to find out

[Slickrock]

BM has Beastial Wrath & Exotics. ......

Pets shouldn't be able to just 2 shot a mob 3 levels above them without having me at least fire a shot at it and not just to 'tag' it. That is the reason KC got nerfed. Pets were doing what one player could do with just 2 button presses, and they were doing it faster than a player.

But we can both agree on that BM needs design clarification.

Well, BW isn't much to talk about anymore either. Which makes the KC being on par with Arcane sad.

Yes, BM needs design guidance. With BW basically being pretty colors, and KC currently no better than Arcane, there are issues...

(Here I thought BM was going to be the nature damage build, and instead I'll be spamming Arcane?.. )

[Silvarain]

(Here I thought BM was going to be the nature damage build....)

i get all my info here from you wonderful people (if i went and hunted down all the info out there i wouldnd be able to get work done lol) so i may have missed it: what did happen to the bm=nature/mm=physical/sv=magic setup? i personally thought it was a spiffy idea

[Slickrock]

(Here I thought BM was going to be the nature damage build....)

i get all my info here from you wonderful people (if i went and hunted down all the info out there i wouldnd be able to get work done lol) so i may have missed it: what did happen to the bm=nature/mm=physical/sv=magic setup? i personally thought it was a spiffy idea

Basically, Blizz didn't follow through on it, and changed it enough that MM and SV might use Cobra just and much as BM, and made shots in such a way that it's better for BM to use Arcane right now..

Sad to say, but it's typical of an expansion. Great ideas from Blizz, but they only make about 25% of them happen.

Dance studio anyone?...

[Protego]

The realms are still down, but as soon as they come up, I will be happily testing to find out

Kk Woot! Alright. Cool. Again thank you.

[SpiritBinder]

I'm sure the numbers aren't final though and I'm hoping it gets buffed later to be more in between the original and this nerf's numbers.

^

The pet pass is still unfinished and hunters are still being balanced. Little early to panic. Being powerful and being overpowered are two different things. No one likes being nerfed from being overpowered, but it has to happen eventually.

But a 60% reduction?...

Low damage takes much longer to get fixed, if it does at all.

If a KC is no better than two Arcane shots, something is seriously wrong. We are back to BM not having a special.

This ^

Remeber the last time BM was nerfed... and they were adament their numbers were fine.. then it took them a YEAR to say... err whoops we think we over did it a touch... and we were never the same again.

I agree the KC nerf was fine, but to what extent is what I'm a touch concerned about....

[Bellatryx]

I'm a bit concerned as well but when I was testing my hunter and running around.. her KC would crit at 239 and that ended up being close to 2/3 if not more of the mob's health.. as an opener... at lv. 11

So something kind of needed to be done.

[Kalliope]

So keep your voices logical and keep letting Blizzard know that this is too extreme.

But I suggest actually testing first and coming up with constructive feedback instead of saying "OMG 60% IS A REALLY BIG NUMBER! FIX US!"

[Slickrock]

So keep your voices logical and keep letting Blizzard know that this is too extreme.

But I suggest actually testing first and coming up with constructive feedback instead of saying "OMG 60% IS A REALLY BIG NUMBER! FIX US!"

Well, if I had beta access, I would test and participate there. PTRs are meaningless, since they are always two to three builds behind what the devs are working on.

But since this was directed at me, I'll keep my mouth shut and take me leave for a while.

[Kalliope]

It was more of a general comment than one directed at you in particular.

And PTR feedback is still better than none at all.

[SpiritBinder]

But since this was directed at me, I'll keep my mouth shut and take me leave for a while.

Slick, I will agree and diagree with people 10 times in one post, but be assured, we are all just really passionate about our pets, and we <3 our them and our hunters to bits. We are all on the same team (most of the time ) and I would be sad to see you back down if you feel that passionate somthing, and the same goes for Kalliope <3.

The number of times that I would like to strangle people, then myself, then them again... i'd would have been a dead chicken along time ago

[SpiritBinder]

I'm a bit concerned as well but when I was testing my hunter and running around.. her KC would crit at 239 and that ended up being close to 2/3 if not more of the mob's health.. as an opener... at lv. 11

So something kind of needed to be done.

Hey Lovcat, was this after of before the reduction? We also need to remeber that if they are going to ballancing any numbers, they are most likely going to do it around the lvl 85 area as they have stated before. Which makes the most sense when you think about it.

[Rikaku]

Hate to say it but after trying it on the beta... I'm gonna call overnerf on KC Some tweaking it could still be good, but KC right now is pretty low. I'm not getting much higher than 5-6k crits with KC at the moment =(

However, BM still seems to be pretty viable, but I'm really not sure. Patch is too buggy to do any real reliable testing to confirm. Otherwise my damage seems to be fine and normal, just KC got hit pretty hard.

Edit:
Looks like pets are doing more base damage though. I'm seeing higher numbers. I'll get more for sure numbers in a sec.

Ok looks like KC got nerfed, but the pets scaling got buffed or something. BM is still viable if these numbers are correct, because I'm seeing very high crits and normals from my pet's base abilities.

[Kalliope]

That's good to hear, Rikaku! Gotten non-BM testing in at all?

[Rikaku]

That's good to hear, Rikaku! Gotten non-BM testing in at all?

I have not yet. The realms are EXTREMELY unstable. They keep crashing, and everytime I dismiss pet and/or logout, my pet's talents reset, which make it very hassling. =(

But the BM numbers are pretty awesome lol
Dare I say it, its as if Blizzard compensated us for the KC nerf.

[Kalliope]

That's good to hear, Rikaku! Gotten non-BM testing in at all?

I have not yet. The realms are EXTREMELY unstable. They keep crashing, and everytime I dismiss pet and/or logout, my pet's talents reset, which make it very hassling. =(

Ugh, that sounds horrific. >_< At least your talents aren't resetting too on top of that!

But the BM numbers are pretty awesome lol
Dare I say it, its as if Blizzard compensated us for the KC nerf.

Hopefully they've got it right this time!

[Rikaku]

Ugh, that sounds horrific. >_< At least your talents aren't resetting too on top of that!

I'd be curled up in the corner, crying, if that happened too. XD