Thinking about not being a hunter anymore.

[cowmuflage]

haha sarcasm i get it.

[Adam-Savage]

sarcasm ?

[cowmuflage]

Yes you were being sarcastic where you not?

[Ryai]

Yes you were being sarcastic where you not?

No I doubt it. Like with Balance druids having Wrath and Starfire.

Both have about the same cast time, but they only use one given which rotation they use, either Wrath rotation to then boost Starfire spam [and glyphed accordingly] or Starfire rotation to boost Wrath spam [again glyphed accordingly]

With the fact Aimed Shot has a 3 sec cast time, I do not think it is supposed to be a spammed shot in a rotation with another long cast shot. Or, they could bump the focus gained from it, downed the cast to steady's time and as SV gets Cobra shot [.. which is lol as it was supposed to be BM's shot] and BM still has steady, MM would have Aimed shot which would regen maybe a bit less focus but do a bit more damage than steady.

[cowmuflage]

Oh did not know that....

[Adam-Savage]

Yes you were being sarcastic where you not?

No, I wasn't.

[Adam-Savage]

Yes you were being sarcastic where you not?

No I doubt it. Like with Balance druids having Wrath and Starfire.

Both have about the same cast time, but they only use one given which rotation they use, either Wrath rotation to then boost Starfire spam [and glyphed accordingly] or Starfire rotation to boost Wrath spam [again glyphed accordingly]

With the fact Aimed Shot has a 3 sec cast time, I do not think it is supposed to be a spammed shot in a rotation with another long cast shot. Or, they could bump the focus gained from it, downed the cast to steady's time and as SV gets Cobra shot [.. which is lol as it was supposed to be BM's shot] and BM still has steady, MM would have Aimed shot which would regen maybe a bit less focus but do a bit more damage than steady.

Wrath cast time is 2 seconds shorter cast time then starfire. Wrath has a 1.5 sec cast time before haste and Starfire has 3.5 second cast time before haste. This is of course unless they changed there cast time but I don't think did.

[Ryai]

Wrath cast time is 2 seconds shorter cast time then starfire. Wrath has a 1.5 sec cast time before haste and Starfire has 3.5 second cast time before haste. This is of course unless they changed there cast time but I don't think did.

Evidently it has. This is because of the new eclipse mechanic.

Basically the main three spells are IS/MF/Wrath or IS/MF[SF]/Starfire, the Wrath rotation boosts lunar I think, while Starfire boosts Solar. There are now different sets of glyphs for both rotations. Meaning the wrath-wrath-starfire-wrath or whatever rotation is gone.

So if that's anything to go by perhaps Marks will recieve the same sort of deal for its rotations. Where there is a variation and hunters pick accordingly.

[Adam-Savage]

I haven't gotten eclipse to go off long enough for me to see the effects really. It's been only in WG that i've been trying it out. Getting into Voa is pretty much impossible on my server now. You have to pretty much beg or bribe it feels like.

[Turgus]

I personally love the idea of Aimed Shot actually having a cast time.
Remember when they made it an instant? Everyone hated the idea then.
Also, remember how little damage it did after the change?
I am glad that it will be "back to normal."
It can now be justified doing the damage it should with the new cast time.

Don't forget about Master Marksman and its proc, which makes aimed shot an instant that also costs no focus.
(Something befitting a Master Marksman)

I am sure the damage is way off for MM hunters, but it takes Blizzard time to balance things out.
Remember BM not doing comparable DPS to the other specs?
It seems like it was just yesterday...

I am sorry that the build that you have come to love has changed. Really, I know how that can be.

But stick with it man, it will get better.

[Ryai]

I haven't gotten eclipse to go off long enough for me to see the effects really. It's been only in WG that i've been trying it out. Getting into Voa is pretty much impossible on my server now. You have to pretty much beg or bribe it feels like.

PvP isn't really good for something like the new eclipse mechanic. The mechanic is more for long term dps than an RNG burst of sorts. Go get some practice in on target dummies. Sides the more pvp abilities is the proc for an instant starsurge n etc, not the eclipse mechanic.

Off topic is off topic.

/hat

[Anansi]

I'm making my Resto/Elemental Shaman my main for Cataclysm. Sadly, the Hunter class just doesn't excite me at this point. MM is really boring to play, I've never liked Survival and BM is ok but again, not terribly interesting.
On the other hand, my Shaman has two great specs and I can heal or dps, essentially having a main and alt in one but amassing achievements, points and loot for one character. I'll probably pick up my Hunter more seriously nearer the end of Cataclysm but for now, he's semi-retired. Or I might just PvP with him, that's an option as well.

[Tahlian]

With the fact Aimed Shot has a 3 sec cast time, I do not think it is supposed to be a spammed shot in a rotation with another long cast shot. Or, they could bump the focus gained from it, downed the cast to steady's time and as SV gets Cobra shot [.. which is lol as it was supposed to be BM's shot] and BM still has steady, MM would have Aimed shot which would regen maybe a bit less focus but do a bit more damage than steady.

Aimed Shot is now intended to be an opener when it's unbuffed. With I think it's 5 stacks of a particular Marks buff, Aimed becomes instant cast for its next firing. So yes, MM now has to watch that buff to use Aimed at a certain time past the opener. Beast Mastery still uses and has access to Cobra Shot at level 81...they just classified it as a Survival-type ability and changed its place in the spellbook. Just like all our traps are on the Survival page of our spellbooks, but every spec of hunter can use them. And BM and Survival are both suffering to an extent because they don't have access to Cobra Shot at the moment. But that's how it is for the next couple months unless Blizzard suddenly decides to drop the level requirement on some things.

This has been a lot of change presented to us in a relatively short amount of time, and just about every class is having to get used to a lot of new things. Cowmuflage, if you honestly don't enjoy your hunter anymore, then switch mains till Cataclysm and come back to it once you have access to the new class abilities. As for me, I'm looking at having to learn a new priority system as a bit of a challenge and have found myself spending a lot of time on the target dummies to help retrain that muscle memory. I figure doing this kind of thing now will give me a bit of a head start on Cataclysm, so that by the time my raid reconvenes for 85 content, I'll be used to it, be ready to go, and have all the proper pets leveled.

[Ryai]

. Beast Mastery still uses and has access to Cobra Shot at level 81...they just classified it as a Survival-type ability and changed its place in the spellbook. Just like all our traps are on the Survival page of our spellbooks, but every spec of hunter can use them.

Nope.

BM used to have a Cobra Shot buff- well steady and cobra. It was removed, and SV got talents or whatever to buff Cobra Shot. Yes BM can use it and I want to use it, but with a lack of a glyph to make it do the 10% more my steady does, it's not viable for me. Meaning, yes Tah, it is a SV shot first and formost. Like Kill Command is the replacement BM shot.

Aimed Shot is now intended to be an opener when it's unbuffed. With I think it's 5 stacks of a particular Marks buff, Aimed becomes instant cast for its next firing. So yes, MM now has to watch that buff to use Aimed at a certain time past the opener.

Well there's the problem.

[cowmuflage]

But it can take awhile for those stacks to stack up and i ahve been finding that i have all ready killed the mob i was fighting and the stacks go to waste..... Thats with bosses tho lol

[Adam-Savage]

But it can take awhile for those stacks to stack up and i ahve been finding that i have all ready killed the mob i was fighting and the stacks go to waste..... Thats with bosses tho lol

I think it's meant more for a raid situation.

[Tahlian]

. Beast Mastery still uses and has access to Cobra Shot at level 81...they just classified it as a Survival-type ability and changed its place in the spellbook. Just like all our traps are on the Survival page of our spellbooks, but every spec of hunter can use them.

Nope.

Actually, yes.

BM used to have a Cobra Shot buff- well steady and cobra. It was removed, and SV got talents or whatever to buff Cobra Shot. Yes BM can use it and I want to use it, but with a lack of a glyph to make it do the 10% more my steady does, it's not viable for me. Meaning, yes Tah, it is a SV shot first and formost. Like Kill Command is the replacement BM shot.

And I just went and checked the BM and SV trees both in beta and on live. Neither tree has a talent in it that mentions Cobra Shot being buffed. Cobra Shot does Nature damage and ignores armor, not to mention that for BM and SV, Cobra refreshes our Serpent Sting so we don't have to worry about reapplying it. That's why there's not an extra damage glyph for it. The Steady Shot glyph - which will be preferred for Marksmen once Cobra becomes available - stayed around to perhaps make up for the fact that Armor Penetration went away to help out Marks. Cobra Shot will be the focus refill shot for BM and SV in Cataclysm...unless, of course, you like having to juggle reapplying Serpent into what can be at times a rather tight rotation.

[Ryai]

Actually, yes.

Still no afaik.

BM used to have a Cobra Shot buff- well steady and cobra. It was removed, and SV got talents or whatever to buff Cobra Shot. Yes BM can use it and I want to use it, but with a lack of a glyph to make it do the 10% more my steady does, it's not viable for me. Meaning, yes Tah, it is a SV shot first and formost. Like Kill Command is the replacement BM shot.

And I just went and checked the BM and SV trees both in beta and on live. Neither tree has a talent in it that mentions Cobra Shot being buffed. Cobra Shot does Nature damage and ignores armor, not to mention that for BM and SV, Cobra refreshes our Serpent Sting so we don't have to worry about reapplying it. That's why there's not an extra damage glyph for it. The Steady Shot glyph - which will be preferred for Marksmen once Cobra becomes available - stayed around to perhaps make up for the fact that Armor Penetration went away to help out Marks. Cobra Shot will be the focus refill shot for BM and SV in Cataclysm...unless, of course, you like having to juggle reapplying Serpent into what can be at times a rather tight rotation.

[/quote]

And I said BM used to have the talent to buff Cobra. If I remember now, being specced in SV increeses Elemental damage, meaning Cobra Shot gains a boost, which BM does not get anymore via the snake summons. Then you also have it all wrong for how speccs spend focus/use focus, ontop of talents. What if I don't want my SS refreshed by Cobra Shot- I have 2/2 for SS dealing 30% damage when I sting a target, cobra shot would render that useless for my specc. And to quote someone from wowhead;

Blizzard being Blizzard, has completely forgotten that post about being a key shot for Beast Master. To be honest, I think BM may get more dps out of going 31/8/2. Going into the Marks tree for 15% more haste with steady shot, and SV for the 30% hit on serpent sting casts. Cobra Shot will be nice for SV however, because it conserves energy, which is sorely needed to get off those Explosive Shots (more on SV later). Energy conservation is NOT a problem right now as Beast Mastery. If anything, they have too much energy to go around and can easily spare 25 focus to chuke off a Serpent to refresh + 30% up front hit (that can crit). Plus the 15% haste in the Marks tree. If anyone has been on the PTR recently, BM is an bloody killing machine (believed to be bugged somewhere).

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx12 ... na5man.jpg Last boss in H-CoS

Anyhow, back to Cobra Shot and the Survival Tree. The Mastery setting for SV is Essence of the Viper, giveing 20% more elemental damage. So in a nutshell, Cobra shot will deal 20% more damage..... without more Mastery. On the PTR, I got my hunter up to ~50% more elemental damage with a serpent pet (now gives curse of elements). This shot will be the 100% upgrade to Steady Shot for SV hunters. However, much to my annoyance, really, CS refreshes Serpent Sting, so there's no point at all for ANY SV hunter come Cataclysm to put points into Imp. Serpent Sting. A) it will always be refreshed, so it will theoretically be used once on a boss and B) the Serpent Spread Talent makes Multi-Shot apply Serpent sting. Making it a decent Opener for SV hunters.

Cobra Shot, with the SV boosting, has clearly been made an SV priority shot. Like how Kill Command is now a BM priority 'shot'.

And seriously the only times I run out of focus is well. When I cock up with AS/Steady, but that's usually after most of my important crap has already gone off.

So yeah, Cobra is to SV what KC is to BM. Sure I will enjoy the shiny, but Blizzard has gone above and beyond the call of duty to turn this away from being viable for a BM specc with the SV Serpent Sting talent.

[SpacemaNxSPIFF]

Your going to want to use cobra as a BM because the wasted focus on reapplying Serpent is a dps loss. The Imp SrpS does very little atm, the haste from pathing is actually way more beneficial. Those numbers and the post was from ptr and much has changed since then, plus this is all moot come Cata where all the specs are fairly balanced atm and getting closer (beta).
And to clarify Aimed shot should almost always be used only during the MM proc, or for an opener. Basically, it's still an instant, you just can't use it as often. I've actually found that MM plays almost the same as it did before the patch, if not easier.

The fact is that all of our mechanics and abilities and numbers are balanced around raiding, and at 85. This means some classes/specs will feel severely more broken than others. Blizz knew this, but they had to release a prepatch. All the balancing and fixing is just for the time being, beta is looking good to go and raid testing is starting soon.
@Cowmuflage, if you really feel that you don't want to play your hunter anymore, you have every right, and hey it might turn out that you love your new main class even more in cata =D. But I would advise, as others have wisely stated before me here, to just give it some time, or wait till Cata.

I personally loved the idea of all the changes when I first heard about it. I went and trained at dummies on ptr, etc. feeling good about the changes; however, as soon as the patch dropped I was lost. Practicing and using the spec in raids and groups is much harder than it seemed. Despite this, since I was trying to level my new pets, I had to constantly run Heroics for each. At first it was painful, I couldn't react or anything, was wasting focus. Missed volley dearly D:...But, soon enough it was clicking. I was playing normally and it felt like it did before, natural. My dps went up, I could react, even provide utility. Heck I did 12k on a dungeon boss as BM O.o..we got nerfed tho heheh.
I'm now loving this patch and the coming expansion, but I owe it all to the old college try.

[Zinagaro]

3-4 Hunters at level 80 > 80 DK 80 Warlock 80 Warrior 80 Hunter and Another 80 DK.

Ask Korii; we defended XRoads easily.

From a PvE perspective AoE with the MM build is fairly okay at the moment as is Surv.
From PvP perspective, with scatter and many other abilities being able to spam now, concussive being one, it is far easier to kite people around.
Along with the boosts to our pets and mend pet ticking for percentage now. Soloing Raid bosses has become so easy its not even funny. Seeing Mend pet with no focus cost or anything makes it easy to pump out 4.5k heals every 2 seconds on my pet while spamming just as much for damage.

In my opinion, I'm fairly pleased with it so far.